Landlord cert - illegal boiler

[beesley121]

Hi guys,

if you go out to do a landlord cert and find the boiler to have been fitted illegally, what do you do if anything?

 

[Ermintrude]

1 . Issue cp12
2. Issue ID notice as unc omissions appliance
3. Call HSE and riddor landlord / property.

4. Invoice.

 

[gasmanrob]

Depends what you mean by illegally fitted if it constitutes a safety risk then it's riddor reportable/shut down/ labeled depending on NCD ar or id

if you mean fitted by a non gsr then report it but ultimately it's down to you to prove it and prove who fitted it

 

[beesley121]

Only reason I asked was I did a llc the other day, the boiler clearly. Hadn't been installed by a Gsr, loads of NCS's, but main issue was unsupported flue and incorrect flue termination. As you can guess, benchmark not filled in too.

now I ID'ed this boiler due to the flue, but if the flue had been fine, by signing off a llc, aren't we saying that's it 'ok' that the boiler was fitted by an illegal fitter?

 

[Ermintrude]

Well if you have seen a blank benchmark then there is no evidence to show it's been commissioned is there? So you charge for commission or id it. Cp12 is almost a commission so u could get paid twice!!

 

[gasmanrob]

I'd consider it well maintained if I went to a llgc and there was a manual on site in tact let alone with the benchmark completed.

most of the time there isn't one there, so I have no idea if it's been commissioned or not, however by completing a cp12 you're not saying it was fitted by a certified installer you are saying that all the safety checks you carried out on that day at that time were satisfactory. And if they weren't you took the appropriate steps to rectify/make safe

 

[buckley plumb]

been here before . I would do cp12 as above done a few and called gas safe to find out if boiler has been registered etc .there is no way of tracing the illegal fitter and that's the problem - boilers should only be sold to gas safe registered engineers ,they tried this a few years ago but it never stuck as merchants etc loosing sales.

 

[gbheatingtech]

am I right in thinking that if there is no benchmark filled out on new appliance then it is automatically and AR situation as you cant prove it has been installed by a gsr engineer?

 

[stani]

What percentage of properties have the manual available, it may be a requirement to fill in the benchmark, it's not a requirement for the tenant to keep the book in a safe place.
what do you do if there is no manual available?

 

[gbheatingtech]

I believe that it is the landlords responsibility to make sure that gas appliances in property have manuals or instructions so tennants can use them safely. GSR must also leave instructions with tennant when installing new appliances.

I usually go by the assumption that if appliance is only a year or 2 old and no manual but same tennants that the aplliance/s were probs installed on the cheap and bodged in by the landlord and his mate. Run the risk of not getting the work or getting paid but just leave the appliance safe (ID or AR) and dust your hands of it. Not worth the headaches!!

 

[stani]

I think Gasmanrob nailed this in his response, we are not there to police who installed but wether or not it is safe to keep on, how do we know if a 10 year old boiler was installed by a GSR or a 1 st year apprentice, or the landlord.
the landlord can leave instructions which don't have the benchmark attached, because he downloaded anew copy for the tenant.
benchmark is a good idea, only if the clients keep them.

 

[ambrosia]

I dont see my job as being a policeman or traffic warden, on a CP12 I'm there to insure the boiler is working safely and not a danger to anyone, if I was in that situation and I didnt like the flue etc and thought it was dangerous or could become dangerous i'd either disconnect it or fix it

 

[Linkyplumb]

The llc is a report of the state of the gas carcass and appliances on that day.
If you have an mot, they advise, pass or fail. That is it.
You do the cp12, note down any faults, classify accordingly, and then either quote to rectify work, or turn off/cap appliance.
As said above, it is very rare to see a book in a rented place, so how do you know if any appliance has been comissioned?

 

[Ermintrude]

It's a legal requirement to leave instructions with user. My point was if you see a blank benchmark......

 

[beesley121]

My point in all this is if say I wasn't a GSR and I was a landlord that needed a new boiler and thought, tell you what, I'll do it myself and once it's done, I'll just get them to do a landlord cert on the house. If it's all done ok, ive got away with installing it illegally

 

[Ermintrude]

Yep a bellend builder tried this on Friday... We had been done before tho as he got us to do co12. I say check date on serial number .

 

[AWheating]

tbh if its been done by an non registerd person its likely to have faults that could be AR'd, you can only go on whats in front of you tho. If you think its dodgy you could phone the manufacturer and see if its been registerd, stolen or what ever.

 

[combo]

The idea of playing Inspector Frost is too much. Just run through the CP12 and if it passes, then fine, if not, fail it.

 

[Leo21]

The idea of playing Inspector Frost is too much. Just run through the CP12 and if it passes, then fine, if not, fail it.

I agree, it would be nice to be able to do more. But if it's safe it's safe.

 

[buckley plumb]

My point in all this is if say I wasn't a GSR and I was a landlord that needed a new boiler and thought, tell you what, I'll do it myself and once it's done, I'll just get them to do a landlord cert on the house. If it's all done ok, ive got away with installing it illegally

it wont be registered with gas safe or manufacturer for warranty though