Looking for advice on Boiler Change

[ceedy]

We have an Old Thorn House warmer Spectacular 55 in Our Inglenook Fireplace in the living room, with Back Boiler running 9 rads & HW tank etc .
All Piped in by me with plastic micro bore.
Originally done in the 1980's and replaced about 4 years ago with modern plastic. Plastic used purely because of the type/latout of the house,
built in 1700's with Solid Floors and partition Walls. Most pipe work is hidden out of sight.
Its all worked very well despite what opinions others may have of plastic ?. but now. the boiler really needs improving.
The control Box packed up 4 days before Xmas ( ) . and still not sorted due to the festive time.
Been using electric imersion heater and the housewarmer front fire over Xmas. but a bit chilly in bed .

Had the control box removed and sent away for repair to ADlINK UK in wembly, got it back Xmas eve, it ran for 20 minutes then packed up again.
So frustrating as its such a simple board.( wish I had a circuit diagram)
Its presently back for repair again under warranty.

I can get the thorn spares still, but ??%**%!!!! Expensive for what they are, and really would prefer to spend the money on improving the Boiler.

I qualify for Warm front in 3 weeks ? ( old git) and maybe this boiler scrappage may have merit ??.

But its what do I do thats the prob ?.

The house has 15mm copper gas feed buried under floors to the Housewarmer in the living room. it goes up into 1 bedroom across 2 bedrooms and down into the living room.

Gas feed could go across fireplace into nearby airing cupboard ( where HW tank is ) and another white box boiler could go in there with Flue through into lean to annex and up thro' roof ?.

Fitting a white box in the Kitchen /dining room near the gas meter is a total No No, just nowhere to put it. plus water pipe access to rest of system ( manifolds etc ) is non existent. .

I understand its tricky not seeing the setup but any suggestions with boiler types ?

The back boiler is perfect for this setup/layout but not E Friendly enough !!

C.

 

[doitmyself]

I qualify for Warm front in 3 weeks ? ( old git)

Even if you qualify for Warmfront, you have to be aware that they will only replace a boiler if it is unrepairable. As they have already spent all their 09/10 allocation, the earliest you would get anything done is April - there is usually a six month waiting list!

maybe this boiler scrappage may have merit ??.

Could be a better bet. Click this link Boiler Scrappage

My son had his Baxi Bermuda back boiler replaced just before Christmas. The new heat-only boiler went in the airing cupboard in the bedroom immediately above the fireplace. There was some concern over the gas pipe as it was buried under the concrete floor and all we could see was 15mm. The installer extended this to the new position, connected the boiler and checked pressure. It was OK.

The water piping was also easy as they just had to be shortened - cylinder pump and motorized valve were already in the airing cupboard.

The flue went up through the loft and out of the roof.

 

[Blackcatgas]

Worcester bosch now do a flexible flue liner type flue. for thier floor standing rang ie 30cdi fs, it also has a built in condensate pump to pump the condensate away up to 4m verticly.
Recent product launches - Worcester, Bosch Group UK installer site

 

[gakmonkey]

My son had his Baxi Bermuda back boiler replaced just before Christmas. The new heat-only boiler went in the airing cupboard in the bedroom immediately above the fireplace. There was some concern over the gas pipe as it was buried under the concrete floor and all we could see was 15mm. The installer extended this to the new position, connected the boiler and checked pressure.

Out of interest which make/model boiler was this and what size gas tail does it have. I only ask as I have seen a fair few conversions of this type all with worcesters or potterton boilers that all state minimum gas pipe size of 22mm in the MI and a reducer fitted on 15mm.

 

[doitmyself]

Out of interest which make/model boiler was this and what size gas tail does it have.

It was a Remeha Avanta 15V. The gas connection is 22mm. The installer checked the pressure at the boiler and the drop was within limits.

The pipe leaving the meter immediately divided in two; one branch in ½ inch, the other in ¾ inch. As they then disappear into the floor its impossible to say where they go, but my guess is the ½ inch one goes to the kitchen for the cooker and the ¾ inch goes to the living room fireplace to feed the back boiler and fire front. Unfortunately all that can be seen is a short length of ½ inch/15mm coming out of the wall near the grate, so the installer had to connect to that This would mean that the only bit in 15mm is the riser from the fireplace to the bedroom.

 

[ceedy]

Out of interest which make/model boiler was this and what size gas tail does it have. I only ask as I have seen a fair few conversions of this type all with worcesters or potterton boilers that all state minimum gas pipe size of 22mm in the MI and a reducer fitted on 15mm.

The current gas feed and the 22mm feed need was always my main sticking point..

Putting on my old silly logic hat ....??

If my " old inefficient boiler" with all its " losses" can supply enough heat to run my HW and CH for 20 years without a problem through a 15mm pipe.

It seems daft that a new sooper duper mega efficient boiler needs a greater gas feed to to the same??


Unless its just the more heat for less time syndrome ??

But still its X amount to gas( £'s) to do Y amount of work ??

Err! does any of that make sense ??

 

[doitmyself]

The current gas feed and the 22mm feed need was always my main sticking point..

As far as I am aware, it is all due to regulations which specify a maximum pressure loss between the meter and the boiler. The loss depends on required flow rate, length of pipe run, number of bends and the size of the pipe. Provided the pressure loss is within limits you can use an 8mm pipe if you wanted to. The manufacturer's connection is just a compromise.

My boiler is on the same wall as the meter and almost backing on to it. The run cannot be more than a couple of metres, yet it has a ¾" pipe dropping down to ½" at the boiler.

 

[gakmonkey]

As far as I am aware, it is all due to regulations which specify a maximum pressure loss between the meter and the boiler. The loss depends on required flow rate, length of pipe run, number of bends and the size of the pipe. Provided the pressure loss is within limits you can use an 8mm pipe if you wanted to. The manufacturer's connection is just a compromise.

My boiler is on the same wall as the meter and almost backing on to it. The run cannot be more than a couple of metres, yet it has a ¾" pipe dropping down to ½" at the boiler.

pipework undersized according to MI with no ill effects NCS according to GIUSR