Fitting a US part onto UK toilet

loted932 · Jan 5, 2019

Hello,
I need to fit a US bidet onto a UK toilet.
This is the one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00JG2DETM/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Please see images for the specs and T-adapter that I need to replace.

I think the simplest is to get a new UK T-adapter and then attach a UK to US adapter so I can connect it to the the 1/2" hose.

Can anyone please advise one where to get this adapter from?

Thanks

ShaunCorbs · Jan 5, 2019

Can't fit it due to it breaking backflow regs if the water board see this connected to your supply they will either remove it or turn your supply off as it risks contamination of there supply

Pickwickpick · Jan 5, 2019

These are a fluid category 5 risk, the highest risk designation per the water regs. There are very strict rules on their installation, it is illegal to install one of these directly to a supply pipe.

You have to have air gaps and meet a host of other conditions around how/where... they are fitted. Without this you would not only be breaking the law but also risk contaminating not just your water but that are of your neighbours to.

Here are some relevant links to the the Water Regulations Advisory Scheme (WRAS).

WRAS IRN R070

WRAS Don't be a douche about hand showers

loted932 · Jan 5, 2019

Pickwickpick said:
These are a fluid category 5 risk, the highest risk designation per the water regs. There are very strict rules on their installation, it is illegal to install one of these directly to a supply pipe.

You have to have air gaps and meet a host of other conditions around how/where... they are fitted. Without this you would not only be breaking the law but also risk contaminating not just your water but that are of your neighbours to.

Here are some relevant links to the the Water Regulations Advisory Scheme (WRAS).

WRAS IRN R070

WRAS Don't be a douche about hand showers

Is there any way of doing that's safe?
Thanks

ShaunCorbs · Jan 5, 2019

loted932 said:
Is there any way of doing that's safe?
Thanks

Not without re pipping and some expense

Pickwickpick · Jan 5, 2019

As ShaunCorbs has said, it will be expensive

Your best bet is to go for something that is already WRAS approved, there isn't a huge amount of choice out there and they will be more expensive but at least you know if you follow the instructions you won't be breaking the law or risk causing a dangerous contamination and they shouldn't require any major plumbing changes.

You can see on the WRAS site which ones they have approved:

WRAS search

Sadly you can't just click through to the product, but for each approval it tells you manufacturer and model numbers so if you google those you should be able to find more information on them and suppliers.

Otherwise you really want to have a chat with some local plumbers about what modifications would be required to meet the regs in your property and get some quotes.

rpm · Jan 5, 2019

Seperate water tank for a start.

Ric2013 · Jan 5, 2019

Hmm. I've been reading the WRAS article referenced above. It suggests that it MAY be possible to do it without a so-called break tank. Can't help thinking the Europeans seem to survive and I cannot for a moment imagine they use break tanks on every bidet toilet installation.

Whereas we Brits love break tanks. We'd use them for our hot water and heating systems if we ever thought of it... oh wait...

Does the kit have any kind of US approval that suggests it is safe for use with public water supplies that could reasonally be comparable to BS, KIWA, or WRAS approvals? If not then I would argue illegal to install, but should still be safe only if installed with the proper backflow protection.

ShaunCorbs · Jan 5, 2019

Ric2013 said:
Hmm. I've been reading the WRAS article referenced above. It suggests that it MAY be possible to do it without a so-called break tank. Can't help thinking the Europeans seem to survive and I cannot for a moment imagine they use break tanks on every bidet toilet installation.

Whereas we Brits love break tanks. We'd use them for our hot water and heating systems if we ever thought of it... oh wait...

Does the kit have any kind of US approval that suggests it is safe for use with public water supplies that could reasonally be comparable to BS, KIWA, or WRAS approvals? If not then I would argue illegal to install, but should still be safe only if installed with the proper backflow protection.

im sure they use main rpz valves tho after the stop tap

Ric2013 · Jan 6, 2019

Scary that some people in offices can sit and study what can and does go wrong to death, write the rules... and then anyone can buy something like this from Amazon for £30.00, DIY install it, and quite possibly get away with it for years. But unless we all go back to standpipes and take the water indoors in a bucket, that's what we're up against.

My point was that I doubt our friends on the continent will be using something as bulky as a break tank (and pump).

As an indulgent aside, I must say I'd like to add a few header tanks in series to feed my WC cistern at home. These header tanks could be fed from my cylinder feed cistern. Put in glass tanks and add a few goldfish and it could be a water feature on my landing.

Back to being serious, I'm inclined to say impractical to fit (legally) in the UK. A DC pipe interrupter wouldn't work where you have a control valve on the outlet (i.e the controls on the bidet thing). And I'm afraid I cannot claim to sufficient knowledge to be able to say that any installation that breaches the WRAS advice is 'probably okay' because I'm not knowledgable enough to know exactly, on a physical level, why a double check valve or RPZ valve is okay for fluid category 3 but not for fluid catergory 5: you'd have to ask WRAS or your water board water regulations department for a detailed explanation. So my feeling is that in the UK you need to add a header tank (and then probably pump the water to create enough pressure for your bidet spray).

ShaunCorbs · Jan 6, 2019

Ric2013 said:
Scary that some people in offices can sit and study what can and does go wrong to death, write the rules... and then anyone can buy something like this from Amazon for £30.00, DIY install it, and quite possibly get away with it for years. But unless we all go back to standpipes and take the water indoors in a bucket, that's what we're up against.

My point was that I doubt our friends on the continent will be using something as bulky as a break tank (and pump).

As an indulgent aside, I must say I'd like to add a few header tanks in series to feed my WC cistern at home. These header tanks could be fed from my cylinder feed cistern. Put in glass tanks and add a few goldfish and it could be a water feature on my landing.

Back to being serious, I'm inclined to say impractical to fit (legally) in the UK. A DC pipe interrupter wouldn't work where you have a control valve on the outlet (i.e the controls on the bidet thing). And I'm afraid I cannot claim to sufficient knowledge to be able to say that any installation that breaches the WRAS advice is 'probably okay' because I'm not knowledgable enough to know exactly, on a physical level, why a double check valve or RPZ valve is okay for fluid category 3 but not for fluid catergory 5: you'd have to ask WRAS or your water board water regulations department for a detailed explanation. So my feeling is that in the UK you need to add a header tank (and then probably pump the water to create enough pressure for your bidet spray).

rpz is cat 4 but you can get special ones to do cat 5 eg slaughter houses etc

Welder · Jan 6, 2019

Thought RPZs were only for commercial not domestic Shaun? They also have to be serviced by a licensed contractor every 12 months surely?!

ShaunCorbs · Jan 6, 2019

YorkshireDave said:
Thought RPZs were only for commercial not domestic Shaun? They also have to be serviced by a licensed contractor every 12 months surely?!

Nope

And correct

snowhead · Jan 6, 2019

YorkshireDave said:
Thought RPZs were only for commercial not domestic Shaun? They also have to be serviced by a licensed contractor every 12 months surely?!

RPZs are notifyable to the supplier.
Can only be fitted and tested by an approved contractor.
Must be retested yearly AND the test cert has to go to the supplier.
The supplier WILL (well Severn Trent did) visit site if the annual cert(s) isn't submitted.

Pickwickpick · Jan 6, 2019

snowhead said:
RPZs are notifyable to the supplier.
Can only be fitted and tested by an approved contractor.
Must be retested yearly AND the test cert has to go to the supplier.
The supplier WILL (well Severn Trent did) visit site if the annual cert(s) isn't submitted.

Have never come across these, is there any specific reason why they are notifiable to the supplier?

snowhead · Jan 6, 2019

They're notifiable so the supplier can keep track of whether they are tested annually.

Ric2013 · Jan 6, 2019

Pickwickpick said:
Have never come across these, is there any specific reason why they are notifiable to the supplier?

Cause it says so in the WRAS blue book, I think.

Welder · Jan 6, 2019

snowhead said:
RPZs are notifyable to the supplier.
Can only be fitted and tested by an approved contractor.
Must be retested yearly AND the test cert has to go to the supplier.
The supplier WILL (well Severn Trent did) visit site if the annual cert(s) isn't submitted.

Thank you. Thought I was making it all up (again...)

ShaunCorbs · Jan 6, 2019

its to protect there supply decent gig testing them

quality · Jan 6, 2019

ShaunCorbs said:
Can't fit it due to it breaking backflow regs if the water board see this connected to your supply they will either remove it or turn your supply off as it risks contamination of there supply

I agree but what are the chances of the so called water board seeing it in a domestic environment?

ShaunCorbs · Jan 6, 2019

quality said:
I agree but what are the chances of the so called water board seeing it in a domestic environment?

In our county none but Germany or the us I bet you would see a few

Stigster · Jan 8, 2019

I really hope OP doesn't go "Sod it, that's too much hassle" and goes and installs it anyway. These things are a pet hate of mine. There was a guy promoting them (and linking to his sales page) via YouTube last year and I had a bit of a to do with him. He basically said I was scaremongering and something like "There is no cross contamination risk, you are making things up!" and asked "What idiots sat in some boardroom dreamed up these stupid regulations?"

I can only hope people saw my arguing in the comments section and took heed of my advice. I can't think of a much worse backflow risk than a shower head sitting in a toilet bowl.

Welder · Jan 8, 2019

Stigster said:
I can only hope people saw my arguing in the comments section and took heed of my advice. I can't think of a much worse backflow risk than a shower head sitting in a toilet bowl.

Stig. One cannot legislate for imbecilic behaviour.

It's not all his fault however. UK law is a complete joke because it should be illegal to make & supply things that cannot be fitted. The manus make their money and, YET AGAIN, we poor sods pay the price.

Pickwickpick · Jan 8, 2019

YorkshireDave said:
Stig. One cannot legislate for imbecilic behaviour.

It's not all his fault however. UK law is a complete joke because it should be illegal to make & supply things that cannot be fitted. The manus make their money and, YET AGAIN, we poor sods pay the price.

It should also be illegal to import them, its not rocket science to keep an eye on ebay & amazon, but there is zero enforcement of the rules that do exist sadly.

Ric2013 · Jan 8, 2019

Yet I would like to know the reason why a double check valve is not sufficient. It does, after all, prevent backflow.

Would I be right to assume the reasoning is that the DCV will eventually fail and at which point it will be as if there were no backflow device fitted or is it something to do with the fact that, check valve or no, the body of water with the valve open (in use) is one and that bacteria could creep up the pipe walls, something that is not possible when there is a physical air gap.

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