Cast soil section replacement

linton.jaw · Apr 23, 2019

Good evening,

Just to see how you guys have done something I keep thinking about in my head. A job I have looked at to fit a downstairs toilet. The soil stack is all internal (boxed in) and is cast all the way up, I need to cut into the bottom of the stack for the new toilet. The customer really doesn’t want the whole stack removed but I’m not 100% sure on cutting out a small section at the bottom to adapt to plastic and then connect it back up to cast above. Won’t the weight be an issue? Has anyone done this before?

Obviously the easy way would be to cut the bottom section (roughly a foot) out and leave everything above. What’s your opinions?

Thanks

king of pipes · Apr 23, 2019

It is doable with a time saver tee and couplings but you will need good access and make sure the above pipework is well supported, I have done it several times a angle grinder is really the only way to remove a section so you need to proceed with care and wear ppe . Good luck kop

Rob Foster · Apr 23, 2019

king of pipes said:
It is doable with a time saver tee and couplings but you will need good access and make sure the above pipework is well supported, I have done it several times a angle grinder is really the only way to remove a section so you need to proceed with care and wear ppe . Good luck kop

Decent sized angle grinder only
1. to get deepest cut possible
2. to mitigate bouncing which seems to happen with cast

no mini grinders in other words
centralheatking

Ben-gee · Apr 23, 2019

Just to reiterate what’s been said.
Make sure you support the weight above your cut, otherwise the stack could drop down and trap the grinder blade - this will be nasty/dangerous.
In your situation you will need to remove the boxing to gain access to the stack higher up, use strapband/timber props to take the heavy load.

chris watkins · Apr 23, 2019

No, No, No & trice NO, please don't use an angle grinder, far to dangerous!!! Have you never used a set of Jones wheel cutters.
Soil Pipe Cutter Hire | Brandon Hire Station | Tool Hire | Tool Rental

Personally I would quote for a cast iron branch & 3 x 100mm couplings Time Saver or Ensign (these can be used like slip couplings) & come off the branch in plastic ie. keep the stack CI.

Riley · Apr 23, 2019

chris watkins said:
No, No, No & trice NO, please don't use an angle grinder, far to dangerous!!! Have you never used a set of Jones wheel cutters.
Soil Pipe Cutter Hire | Brandon Hire Station | Tool Hire | Tool Rental
View attachment 38277
Personally I would quote for a cast iron branch & 3 x 100mm couplings Time Saver or Ensign (these can be used like slip couplings) & come off the branch in plastic ie. keep the stack CI.

Thanks Chris. How does it work in confined spaces ???

chris watkins · Apr 23, 2019

You don't need to turn it all the way round, so long as you have approximately 90deg movement on the handle it will cut, just need to make sure it is set square to the pipe. You just keep it moving back & forth, then slowly tighten, it causes the pipe to fracture.
Just go at it steady & will get a clean cut.
PS allow 5mm for each rubber stop (in the middle of each coupling) on top of the length of the branch for the cut length.

Burger · Apr 23, 2019

Could opt for stub stack externally and connect into existing drain connection/manhole? Or am I pushing the price up?

Riley · Apr 23, 2019

chris watkins said:
You don't need to turn it all the way round, so long as you have approximately 90deg movement on the handle it will cut, just need to make sure it is set square to the pipe.

So literally back and forth??

Rob Foster · Apr 23, 2019

chris watkins said:
You don't need to turn it all the way round, so long as you have approximately 90deg movement on the handle it will cut, just need to make sure it is set square to the pipe. You just keep it moving back & forth, then slowly tighten, it causes the pipe to fracture.
Just go at it steady & will get a clean cut.
PS allow 5mm for each rubber stop (in the middle of each coupling) on top of the length of the branch for the cut length.

so its like using chain dogs ?

Last Plumber · Apr 23, 2019

Riley said:
So literally back and forth??

Yes. As long as you pass over the track of the previous wheel with the next, you're fine.

WC1 · Apr 23, 2019

I find I get reasonable results with an angle grinder, I deal with some very old (100 yrs) cast which can be uneven in wall thickness and the chain snappers make me nervous of shattering the length. The fine iron powder which stains everything is the biggest issue with a grinder. Timesaver all day, really p's me off when a section of plastic is inserted by lazy builders...

Rob Foster · Apr 23, 2019

WC1 said:
I find I get reasonable results with an angle grinder, I deal with some very old (100 yrs) cast which can be uneven in wall thickness and the chain snappers make me nervous of shattering the length. The fine iron powder which stains everything is the biggest issue with a grinder. Timesaver all day, really p's me off when a section of plastic is inserted by lazy builders...

yes I have always been comfortable with a decent heavy angle grinder. centralheatking

chris watkins · Apr 24, 2019

Rob Foster said:
yes I have always been comfortable with a decent heavy angle grinder. centralheatking

Then can I suggest when you do your next one you try the Jones cutters!!! You will find them quicker, cheaper but above all SAFER.

You may feel comfortable using heavy grinders on their side, in a confined space, with the risk that the stack will drop causing it to snatch or worse still break the blade, having seen the injuries caused by these things I would humbly suggest you go with the voice of experience.
Do you ever complete risk assessments Rob?

Rob Foster · Apr 24, 2019

chris watkins said:
Then can I suggest when you do your next one you try the Jones cutters!!! You will find them quicker, cheaper but above all SAFER.

You may feel comfortable using heavy grinders on their side, in a confined space, with the risk that the stack will drop causing it to snatch or worse still break the blade, having seen the injuries caused by these things I would humbly suggest you go with the voice of experience.
Do you ever complete risk assessments Rob?

I hear what you say, I am 61 been doin this game over 40 years but for newer ones your advice is if course correct, my first bosch grinder had a simple on off switch and one day when somebody plugged it in it set off over the roof, and dived 4 floors to self destruction...the guard had fallen off years before.
centralheatking

WC1 · Apr 24, 2019

Chris can we agree to disagree on this, I've used grinders for 20 yrs without incident because I do so very carefulling. An angle grinder abused will bite as robs story testified. Each to their own but do whatever it is with appropriate care?

Rob Foster · Apr 24, 2019

WC1 said:
Chris can we agree to disagree on this, I've used grinders for 20 yrs without incident because I do so very carefulling. An angle grinder abused will bite as robs story testified. Each to their own but do whatever it is with appropriate care?

You know, its funny but using a stone disk on cast is actually better than a metal disk..just remembered this, but NEVER the other way round.
chking

WC1 · Mar 6, 2020

Anyone tried the carbide reciprocating blades? I've ordered a couple, will give them a try at the weekend.

ShaunCorbs · Mar 6, 2020

there ok just watch your speed and keep the blade cool eg lubricate

Jim Goodenough · Mar 6, 2020

Rob Foster said:
I hear what you say, I am 61 been doin this game over 40 years but for newer ones your advice is if course correct, my first bosch grinder had a simple on off switch and one day when somebody plugged it in it set off over the roof, and dived 4 floors to self destruction...the guard had fallen off years before.
centralheatking

I've a 9" AEG like that it cost £10 about 35yrs ago!!

WC1 · Mar 7, 2020

ShaunCorbs said:
there ok just watch your speed and keep the blade cool eg lubricate

So I did a worst case scenario test and blasted thru at full speed with no cooling and for me the debate is over, super clean cut, hardly any dust and through in a minute or less on an old bit of 3 inch "glwyned" timesaver cast.
The blades probably fairly cooked, some of the ends of the carbide tips are off but for a tenner off Amazon for 9inch I'll keep a couple in hand.
This was Milwaukee but I'm sure the others will do as well.
Very impressed

centralheatking · Mar 7, 2020

WC1 said:
So I did a worst case scenario test and blasted thru at full speed with no cooling and for me the debate is over, super clean cut, hardly any dust and through in a minute or less on an old bit of 3 inch "glwyned" timesaver cast.
The blades probably fairly cooked, some of the ends of the carbide tips are off but for a tenner off Amazon for 9inch I'll keep a couple in hand.
This was Milwaukee but I'm sure the others will do as well.
Very impressed

Well done just like I work, stuff the thinking about how not to do it, dream up problems....you just got on with it and it’s done. Often too many people over think stuff you just went for it
Centralheatking

Stigster · Mar 7, 2020

WC1 said:
So I did a worst case scenario test and blasted thru at full speed with no cooling

Excellent work and thanks for sharing. I wonder if cooling and lubrication would have saved the saw? I suspect that a successful and fast cut is easily worth the cost of the blade though anyway. Lubing and taking time might end up costing more than the saw was worth. I would have surely done what Shaun said and taken my time and used cutting oil as it makes sense to me to do that as well.

The very few times I've had to cut cast iron live in a customer's house I used one of these and I found it a bit nerve-wracking. I was nervous it would cut and crack the pipe. Ductile Cast Iron Pipe Cutter - Virax - http://www.virax.com/index.php/en/p/30262/steel-and-cast-iron-pipe-cutter/ductile-cast-iron-pipe-cutter

I prefer the idea of sawing so your demo is good to see.

WC1 · Mar 8, 2020

I never liked using "snapper" types.
We cut this one a while back with an angle grinder.
This pic was taken to illustrate the blockage in the pipe, but look at the variation in wall thickness - in some places it's half what it is in others and ive never liked the worry of using a snapper.
Carbide recip for me now for the few times a year I'm cutting cast.
I'm also now thinking about rebar and other metalwork we sometimes cut.
Unfortunately it'll also be useful to naughty boys getting in places they shouldn't.

Cast soil section replacement

linton.jaw

king of pipes

Rob Foster

Ben-gee

chris watkins

Riley

Plumbers Arms member

chris watkins

Burger

Riley

Plumbers Arms member

Rob Foster

Last Plumber

WC1

Rob Foster

chris watkins

Rob Foster

WC1

Rob Foster

WC1

ShaunCorbs

Super Moderator

Jim Goodenough

WC1

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centralheatking

Plumbers Arms member

Stigster

WC1

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