Solar Thermal Cylinder Installation

blueplanet · May 18, 2021

I had a solar thermal cylinder installed last week.

The installers had an issue with one of the valves and installed a 15mm pipe (see red arrow in picture) instead of the 22mm at the valve. Is this going to be an issue?

The 15mm then feeds into the larger 22mm. However, my concern is that I am away frequently so if pressure builds up and the water needs to escape there could be a lot of force on the 15mm piece and section.

Thanks for any input.

blueplanet · May 19, 2021

The installers initially cross threaded the 22m and then switched to the 15mm. Do you think this will be an issue in the future? How likely is it that you need to change from one output point to another?

Also, the pipe work now blocks access to the pump and Honeywell valve - will that cause an issue in the future? I have attached another picture.

Separately, I noticed that the dump pipe goes up initially (you can see it isnt horizontal or downwards in the photo), this will mean water will run backwards or stay in the pipe - is that an issue?

Thanks.

SJB060685 · May 19, 2021

I'm not too familiar on solar thermal installations, so there's only so much my words can be warranted. If the combined temperature and pressure release valve is designed for 22m outlet pipe to D1 of the tundish (which I cant see either) then it should be 22mm and at least one pipe size bigger after the tundish, depending on length of run to termination.
As for running slightly uphill, you are correct, this will create a restriction in the flow of water trying to be dumped for obvious safety reasons.
The pipework blocking the pump will, as you say cause problems if/when the pump fails.
Overall I'm not too impressed looking at this and advise seeking remedial work by someone more competent.

blueplanet · May 19, 2021

I have attached a video from the outlet to the tundish. The pipe after the tundish does look bigger. How can find out if "the combined temperature and pressure release valve is designed for 22m outlet pipe" - should I look on the valve somewhere? I have also attached a photo of the tundish area,

Thanks for your help.

SJB060685 · May 19, 2021

That arrangement looks all wrong. D1 into tundish should not exceed 600mm, which that does. D2 after the tundish should be 300mm minimum before the first bend and at least one size bigger, which it is to be fair.
The valve does look like it's designed for 22mm and has been packed out with 15mm to make a seal.

I can even see a slight weep where its not perfectly sealed.

Chuck · May 19, 2021

Are you saying that an installer damaged a factory-installed 22mm temperature/pressure relief valve and replaced it with a 15mm one? If so, I'd want to check with the cylinder manufacturer whether this is okay, and I'd expect the answer to be 'No.'

I think you need the system to be looked at by someone who knows what they are doing.

blueplanet · May 19, 2021

Chuck said:
Are you saying that an installer damaged a factory-installed 22mm temperature/pressure relief valve and replaced it with a 15mm one? If so, I'd want to check with the cylinder manufacturer whether this is okay, and I'd expect the answer to be 'No.'

I think you need the system to be looked at by someone who knows what they are doing.

I heard them say that they had cross-threaded the 22mm and couldn't get it on. Then the other one suggested using a 15mm. I have emailed the manufacturer to ask about the outlet pipe.

I do know that it is not meant to go upwards (as it does on the right-hand side) so that is definitely an issue. The pump and Honeywell valve being inaccessible is also an issue.

Once I have enough potential issues I will speak to Gas Safe so that they confirm if the installer was G3 qualified or not. He clearly has not thought the installation out.

A friend stated that the outlet had to drop 300mm before turning off but looking at the regulations online it seems that applies after the tundish and not before.

SJB060685 · May 19, 2021

blueplanet said:
I heard them say that they had cross-threaded the 22mm and couldn't get it on. Then the other one suggested using a 15mm. I have emailed the manufacturer to ask about the outlet pipe.

I do know that it is not meant to go upwards (as it does on the right-hand side) so that is definitely an issue. The pump and Honeywell valve being inaccessible is also an issue.

Once I have enough potential issues I will speak to Gas Safe so that they confirm if the installer was G3 qualified or not. He clearly has not thought the installation out.

A friend stated that the outlet had to drop 300mm before turning off but looking at the regulations online it seems that applies after the tundish and not before.

That 300mm applies after the tundish. D1 to tundish is a max of 600mm and obviously can rarely be achieved without a bend or two.

ShaunCorbs · May 19, 2021

Yep that’s a no from me also who installs a 2 port so you can’t service it wants ripping out and starting again

blueplanet · May 19, 2021

ShaunCorbs said:
Yep that’s a no from me also who installs a 2 port so you can’t service it wants ripping out and starting again

Thanks, could you clarify which bit you are referring to - so that I know exactly what I will be referring to when go back to them (and perhaps Gas Safe to make sure they were G3 qualified). Thanks for your input.

Scott_D · May 19, 2021

If it’s not connected to a gas boiler then gas safe won’t be interested.

ShaunCorbs · May 19, 2021

D1 is rising
T and p has been altered from manufacturers spec
No tundish
D1 is too long
D2 is incorrectly sized
2 port is inaccessible
Pump is inaccessible

just to name a few

SJB060685 · May 19, 2021

blueplanet said:
Thanks, could you clarify which bit you are referring to - so that I know exactly what I will be referring to when go back to them (and perhaps Gas Safe to make sure they were G3 qualified). Thanks for your input.

As much as you don't want hear it my friend almost everything in the picture from what I can see is non compliant, or against standard procedure.

blueplanet · May 19, 2021

scott_d said:
If it’s not connected to a gas boiler then gas safe won’t be interested.

We can tick this one off. The cylinder is connected to the gas boiler for heating and water. Its also connected to the solar panel. Cheers.

blueplanet · May 19, 2021

ShaunCorbs said:
D1 is rising
T and p has been altered from manufacturers spec
No tundish
D1 is too long
D2 is incorrectly sized
2 port is inaccessible
Pump is inaccessible

just to name a few

When you refer to D1 and D2 - what does that mean? I think you are referring to the pipes from the valve but is the "D" for down? Thanks.

There's one other thing - they didnt remove the carpet in the airing cupboard when they changed the cylinder - so now the cylinder sits unevenly - part on the carpet and part off (due to the difference in cylinder sizes). You would have thought they could see that when they put it on!

ShaunCorbs · May 19, 2021

blueplanet said:
When you refer to D1 and D2 - what does that mean? I think you are referring to the pipes from the valve but is the "D" for down? Thanks.

the pipe from the valve that they changed

SJB060685 · May 19, 2021

D1 is from the valve to tundish and D2 is from exit of tundish to termination, as in Shauns image. D stands for discharge.

blueplanet · May 27, 2021

Hi, In terms of registering the work with building control how does that work? Is the installer meant to notify the council? How quickly will it show up with the council so that I can check they met the G3 requirements? Thanks for your input.

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