1960's thick copper to stopcock- how to connect

[Andy B]

Hello,

One for the oldies with bad knees.

1960's house- my (soldered) stopcock was in a bad way- passing water, leaking from gland and almost seized up.

I initially planned turn off the water in the street, take off the top, re washer and repack and replace. Upon removing the top of the cock it looked pretty ropy inside- badly pitted, scaled and looked like copper- like the zinc had gone from the brass. It was also apparent that the stopcock in the street was also dribbling water past

I decided to replace it for a new stopcock. One lovely afternoon with wife and kids out and a shiny new compression stopcock in hand and every possible tool within reach I took my pipeslice to the copper incomer which I assumed to be half inch or 15mm.

After taking ten turns to cut the pipe I should have become suspicious but upon removing the cock I realised that no fitting whatsoever would fit. The horrible realisation of having a house with no water supply, a slowly filling Save all (washing up bowl) and her indoors soon to be returning.

I legged it to my local plumbing store where one of the old chaps told me to hammer a speedfit fitting onto it with a block of wood. This I duly did, it was a very very tight fit and will never come off in one piece. The day was saved.

However I want to replace this properly- the speedfit fitting must have been strained on fitting and I don't think speedfit fittings are a long term solution for the 'wrong' side of the stopcock- relying on a perishable rubber ring.

Anybody any idea how to connect to it? With a vernier it is about 15.5mm in diameter and very thick walled. It is in a tight space and I don't fancy being able to file off smooth enough to take a compression fitting.

I am thinking of boring a brass fitting so it can be sweated on after freezing it.

Anybody know of something I can get?

I toyed with using my monument socket former but don't know if the thick walls will open up enough.

Any advice please- and no I'm not leaving the speedfit!

Cheers!!

 

[Best]

It might be underground copper.
It could still be 1/2” which is near identical in size to 15mm, but underground copper can be a little bit deformed (oval).
A compression Conex connector might fit better, but soldering (lead free) is best to underground copper mains pipe

 

[ShaunCorbs]

normally a yorkshire coupling will fit (soldered ring) if not you can use a round file to take any high spots off the solder off and use a flat file on the pipe a bit

 

[Rob Foster]

watch out for the rodesian copper as well from 60s , this is also a strange od size and is very brittle. try a compression fitting 3/4 olive ....the green one
a picture might help us here
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[ShaunCorbs]

watch out for the rodesian copper as well from 60s , this is also a strange od size and is very brittle. try a compression fitting 3/4 olive ..the green one
a picture might help us here
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

wont be used for underground water mains

 

[Burger]

Could it be an iron main? Apparently this was used in the copper shortage years along with the dreaded polyorc -

 

[Andy B]

It might be underground copper.
It could still be 1/2” which is near identical in size to 15mm, but underground copper can be a little bit deformed (oval).
A compression Conex connector might fit better, but soldering (lead free) is best to underground copper mains pipe

Yes that's exactly what it is upon closer inspection- it's very slightly oval. I would say it is underground copper as you describe- it comes straight out of the ground through the slab or whatever they got away with in the 60s for foundations.

How did they solder it?? Probably filed it and hammered the stopcock on...

 

[Andy B]

Thanks for the replies chaps. Soldered or end feed won't fit pipe as it is and I can't get a compression nut on.

I think the best option is as above- file it to fit an end feed or solder ring fitting.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

soldered are slightly;y bigger that comp

does the body of the compression fit?

 

[Andy B]

Could it be an iron main? Apparently this was used in the copper shortage years along with the dreaded polyorc -

No its a copper main BUT I am just getting rid of the the last of the copper plated steel central heating system!!!

 

[Andy B]

soldered are slightly;y bigger that comp

does the body of the compression fit?

No nothing will fit- it must be due to the slight ovality as someone mentioned above.

 

[Best]

Thanks for the replies chaps. Soldered or end feed won't fit pipe as it is and I can't get a compression nut on.

I think the best option is as above- file it to fit an end feed or solder ring fitting.

Some of the better quality brass fittings are wider and might fit on and help make the pipe round shape
Conex is a wider fit including Conex nuts.
Strangely some ‘Yorkshire’ type soldered fittings are slightly wider and a slacker fit on 15mm, so would be useful

 

[Andy B]

Some of the better quality brass fittings are wider and might fit on and help make the pipe round shape
Conex is a wider fit including Conex nuts.
Strangely some ‘Yorkshire’ type soldered fittings are slightly wider and a slacker fit on 15mm, so would be useful

Hmmm that's useful to know, thanks- I will have to get some.

I must admit to being a bit of a cheapskate so wouldn't have a branded 'Yorkshire' or 'conex' in my box of fittings.

I will file to fit a Yorkshire I think

 

[Best]

Hmmm that's useful to know, thanks- I will have to get some.

I must admit to being a bit of a cheapskate so wouldn't have a branded 'Yorkshire' or 'conex' in my box of fittings.

I will file to fit a Yorkshire I think

Conex brass compression fittings are handy for putting on old 1/2” pipes or pipes slightly swollen due to frost damage.
The Yorkshire solder fittings might fit, but other brands sometimes are slacker, so might be better for you.
If using a file, also finish off using emery cloth will help.

 

[Last Plumber]

Did you try knocking the fitting itself onto the pipe without the nut and olive?
As Best has mentioned, it could be slightly swollen as a result of frost. You could file it or emery paper it down a little.
In the past I have annealed them to soften them a bit and then tapped the fitting on first to round them up again if they are out of shape or size. Worth taking a bit of time over.

Good Luck.

 

[Rob Foster]

15.5 mm od ? chking

 

[Jones82]

Try these, Universal transition fittings, I've used them to connect to lead, copper, old steel and iron. Little chunky so you may not be able to get them on. Does the pipe come up through concreate or wooden floor? If its wooden try finding it under the floor and using the fitting there then come up in nice new 15mm copper.

Philmac UTC Joiner 15-21mm x 15-21mm

Edit "chunky" as in bigger than a normal compression fitting

 

[Rob Foster]

Try these, Universal transition fittings, I've used them to connect to lead, copper, old steel and iron. Little chunky so you may not be able to get them on. Does the pipe come up through concreate or wooden floor? If its wooden try finding it under the floor and using the fitting there then come up in nice new 15mm copper.

Philmac UTC Joiner 15-21mm x 15-21mm

Edit "chunky" as in bigger than a normal compression fitting

Thats the solution ....I just found it in catalogue ...well done jones 82. centralheatking

 

[townfanjon]

Note to OP , never hammer a speedfit fitting with a block of wood or anything else for that matter , you could potentially end up in a bigger mess.

 

[Stigster]

Note to OP , never hammer a speedfit fitting with a block of wood or anything else for that matter , you could potentially end up in a bigger mess.

He already did! Says he's changing it though.

 

[Andy B]

Thanks for all the helpful advice chaps. I annealed it, gentle application of blacksmiths tongs and an old tapered poker to get it round again. A bit of filing, a lot of emery cloth and managed to hammer on an old compression fitting. A bit more emery and I managed to solder a Yorkshire coupler on.

Cheers!