2nd hot water cylinder

[rajrks]

Hello would appreciate some fedback on this please , I have a y plan sytem in place , a 115litre hot water tank heated
indirect via boiler , no immersion heater fitted ( could not remove cap , did bot want to risk damage to tank)
ok and i have an abundance of electricity coming form my solar panels .
The easiest opetion for me to utilise this excess electricity is by installing a combination hot water cylinder , hetaed only by the immersion element . I would lik eto fit this in the loft , and when needed , to switch on and say close a gate valve fitted to outlet of existing hwc and then to open outlet of new hwc which will be plumbed into existing hot water supply .
the existing hwc is in the airing cupboard on 2nd floor of the house , the new hwc i propose to install in loft alomost above th eairing cuboard . my question being is this okay to do ? and do i have to have a seperate overflow from new hwc or can i plumb it into existing overflow pipe running along the roof space ?
thanks .

 

[chris watkins]

Hello would appreciate some fedback on this please , I have a y plan sytem in place , a 115litre hot water tank heated
indirect via boiler , no immersion heater fitted ( could not remove cap , did bot want to risk damage to tank)
ok and i have an abundance of electricity coming form my solar panels .
The easiest opetion for me to utilise this excess electricity is by installing a combination hot water cylinder , hetaed only by the immersion element . I would lik eto fit this in the loft , and when needed , to switch on and say close a gate valve fitted to outlet of existing hwc and then to open outlet of new hwc which will be plumbed into existing hot water supply .
the existing hwc is in the airing cupboard on 2nd floor of the house , the new hwc i propose to install in loft alomost above th eairing cuboard . my question being is this okay to do ? and do i have to have a seperate overflow from new hwc or can i plumb it into existing overflow pipe running along the roof space ?
thanks .

Hi rajrks
Welcome to the forum, please don't take this as being rude but you clearly have no idea of the complexity of what you are asking & this is in no way a diy type job that you can attempt without a full understanding.

There are just so many installation & technical issue that no one on here could give you any meaningful advice without seeing the setup that you have, so please seek out a well qualified plumber & /or a mechanical consultant who can design you system so that it will conform to all the regulations & Laws concerning this. (Water & Building Regulations Parts G, L P & A, & Electrical Reg's to name but a few)
Why cant you just replace the existing cylinder with a larger one with an immersion boss or two ??

 

[rajrks]

thanks for your input , i was stating my idea in the simplest form ,
I am aware that as this is an open vent system , not a preasurisd , I am able to install it
but conforming to current standards ect , I am electrically qualified , but dont have too much info
plumbing side , but with some relevant input i'm quite capable to install this , just wanted to know of any suggestions or better ideas . I didnt want to disturb all the pipework in the airing cuboard ect , also have the comination hwc already to hand .

 

[chris watkins]

, I am able to install it but conforming to current standards ect , I am electrically qualified , but dont have too much info plumbing side , but with some relevant input i'm quite capable to install this , just wanted to know of any suggestions or better ideas .

Substitute Plumbing in the above for Electrical & think about it. I am more than capable to install cables etc what the required "standards might be would be a bit of an ask.
Read Water Regs, H&S guidance L8, Building Regs Part L,G,A & P
What will the water level be between the two cisterns ?
How will you ensure change over with out dead legs ?
etc etc etc

 

[mountainman]

It'd be easier, cheaper and much safer to renew your existing cylinder with one that has a usable immersion boss imo.

 

[SimonG]

If you couldnt get the cap off the existing cylinder then I think you should stick to electrics.

Personally I would bin the existing cylinder and go for a bigger one with a couple of bosses as Chris suggested.

 

[rajrks]

thanks for that , though scarcasm not needed from some people .

 

[SimonG]

Where's the sarcasm?

Some people eh, im off to finish re wiring my garage. After all, its just cables, eh!

 

[R.Oak]

Why not replace the existing cylinder with one that can work with the solar panels?

 

[Ermintrude]

Nice. Immersun controller and a 300 unvented cylinder

 

[AWheating]

it will cost alot less to just change your cylinder.

good luck.

 

[lame plumber]

cheapest option would be to pay an experienced plumber to fit an immersion where you can't, due to lack of experience in dealing with things like this

 

[josh]

Rip it all out and put in a combi, just some simple pipes to take out.
bish bash bosh eassssssy.


The amount of energy you get from your panels would probably all be eaten up by use of immersion's plus the fact the heat up time is a lot slower than the coil.

 

[Worcester]

2nd for new Hot Water cylinder with Immersion and the bottom and ImmerSUN II; Simples.

And even then on some days we still export just a little

 

[chris watkins]

2nd for new Hot Water cylinder with Immersion and the bottom and ImmerSUN II; Simples.
View attachment 19029
And even then on some days we still export just a little

I am not understanding this Worcester, if you get a second can you provide a bit more detail please, I take it this is a controller of some sort to sending it to either the grid/house or to immersion. Are standard 3 kWs used ?

 

[IDCHAPPY]

2nd for new Hot Water cylinder with Immersion and the bottom and ImmerSUN II; Simples.
View attachment 19029
And even then on some days we still export just a little

Show off

 

[Ermintrude]

Immersun are good.

Basically determines current density if it's high-enough it all goes to the immersion first.



Put unit next to original DB though. Remove old feed from immersion and clip in solar. Then there is limited wiring. Immersions only fire on solar. A second cylinder would be good as then the ch is not heating the water at all but would only be any good in a high demeand setting or if you had some cylinder stats connected to a pair of two ports obviously with the solar heated pot on as priority and then when that cools below 45c switch onto original system?

 

[Worcester]

Our personal PV system is a little bigger than 4kW

What that is showing is it is measuring the export and if there is any excess generation it is sending the excess to a heating system, in this case the DHW cylinder was already up to temperature, so it is now sending it to a 2nd 1.5kw resisitive load, the house is using what the house is using and it's still exporting 10.8 kW (we need more, bigger, loads )

Here is a more normal customer scenario: 4kW System generating 2.2 kW (its cloudy), 600W being used in the house, ImmerSUN diverting the balance 1.6kW to the immersion, no export, if the generation or house consumption go up or down, it will balance the power to the immersion heater so that it doesn't import any electricity and minimises the export until the DHW cylinder is hot, so 'free' hot water.

Sun came out, 4kW system actually hit 4kW (unusual occurrence due to elevation, orientation, time of day..) Maxed the load to the immersion, so had to export some !



You gotta pay for the immerSUN, on a mains gas system pays for itself within about 3-4 years, bundled with a PV system it also improves the RoI of the PV. gotta have an immersion heater though. Biggest winners by far off-gas grid though even on grid our customers are well happy.

Plus the pay back from the PV, it's difficult to justify Solar Thermal over Solar PV and an ImmerSUN - and we install all of the above!

 

[Worcester]

Or treat it like a dedicated pre-heat cylinder as with some of the larger solar thermal installations, rather than replacing the existing cylinder where there is space and the soalr thermal system is large enough we install a dedicated solar pre-heat cylinder but in this case uing an immsersion instead of a solar thermal collector - just remember all the safelty controls and if unvented need to be G3..