a mare of an installation

[moony]

im currently working on a house - a lot of plumbing, kitchen and bathroom. now the bathroom ive lifted the floor boards today to have a look at the wastes and the 1" and a quarter and inch and a half from the basin and shower respectively are notched into joists trhough every single one... so there is 2 2" notches 4 inches apart from each other in each joist going through bathroom - also the waste for shower, is notched half way down joist as the previous shower tray sat straight onto joists and landed half on half off a joist....

also basin waste went along joists and 45 down and back up under 2 15 mm heating pipes and continued on its run

either a diyer or a plumber who didnt give a flip done this.

now im wondering what can be done to joists ? maybe add some strength to them apart from ripping out and ideas ? or is it something the structural engineer would have to look at? or would you just crack on and install the new bathroom ?

 

[oldplumber]

eaisest option is to ask buildings control to have look, and follow their advice, owner may well be upset by their opinion!.

 

[Centralheatking]

Agree with OP get proffesional advice and do not get left holding someone elses baby - cover your bottom on this one

centralheatking

 

[moony]

ok will do thought it may be a tricky one....

 

[moony]

ok phoned the building control today - and the bloke i spoke to was oh my god they havent done that have they that is bad etc etc.... Then i informed him it was a job that was done by grant work from the council ten years ago that converted the bathroom for a disabled person - ive never heard someone back track so fast in my life....... he then said it could be ok depending on the span and thickness of joists, so i now have to phone him with the measurements of the joists, centres and size of the span onto loading walls - he then questioned me on whether i have the qualfications to install waste pipes? what would this be ? i have my nvq level 3 and im time served - does he mean water regs? seemed to me he was more interested in whether i was qualified to install the waste from the bath shower and basin into the stack than the original shoddy work carried out by the council or sub contractors to the council.

 

[Bartdude]

He didn't offer to come out and have a look then?? Far too busy I suppose

What did the customer say when you told them?it's their house after all.No builder on site then? You could have just passed the problem on to him.

 

[oldplumber]

funnily emough no qualifications are required for basic plumbing as long as you follow building regs, ring again, get someone different and ask for a visit as you believe the situ a dangerous and needs rectifying and you would like their advice on work required. they should come out as you have reported a problem that they should ensure is made safe, and ask for the officers name and contact details incase any problems arise in the future that insurers may need to refer to building regs, you may find that helps, nothing like the threat of being sued to encourage a response, but talk this through with your custard first.

 

[moony]

he said to get the joist dimensions and he would be able to tell me if the joists can have notches in them to the sizes ive mentioned - now this is ridiculous in my view as they would have to take into account condition of joists etc etc wouldnt they ? i will follow your advice and ask for a site visit as this would be best solution.

 

[oldplumber]

so gived him the joist sizes and notch sizes and he can let you know if they are ok to go, however why not look up your level 2 notes and do it yourself, its part of the training we all did. Having read your last post i wouldnt have advised a site visit as all you need is to see whether the cuts are within limits, however fm your first post i wouldnt have thought they were and a visit might be needed to remedy the issues. do as he says first.

 

[moony]

i know the notches are oversized for the joists, simple look at them will tell you that.

i'll humour the lad though and give him his measurements

 

[mickj]

check your building regs, there is a set down set of rules for holes in josts.

 

[Centralheatking]

Take some detailed photos - always good to keep visual record - pictures worth thousands of words.
You have done exactly the correct thing and now make the council fella run around a bit now - you and your customer pay council tax. If you install the pipework to the correct spec there is no comeback over 'qualifications'.

I would be really forcefull now and demand a visit on your customers behalf by a competant official then your in the clear.

centralheatking

 

[stevetheplumber]

youll be very lucky to get them to come out without filling in a raft of forms and paying

 

[plumber0808]

i would see what the customer wants to do.
its their house so let them decide to take it further or carry on with the work.
my bet is they will decide to take the cheapest option and slam the boards back down quick as possible.

if it was my house i would want them sorted properly

 

[moony]

customer wants it sorted properly - lovely couple too the house is for there son. like ive said to the customer best to get someone who will put there name to them being safe or advice for us to follow to strengthen them.

to the person who said to check the regs regarding holes and notches - i know the regs, these are over the allowed regs but the building control said it can depend on the span onto loading walls etc etc. so its up to them to ok it with me to continue i have enough work in the house for this to not hold me up so whilst its getting sorted im cracking on with the rest of the work i can get done. will get some pics of this install when im next there and post up for some of you to have a look. And we'll see what the building inspector comes back with. Even just for entertainment purposes.

 

[Centralheatking]

I think you have handled the whole thing really well and deserve the confidence your customer has in you. others would have carried on taken most probably the same money but you have cared.

I suppose its one of those things that this forum is really good for - we all tend to work in isolation and need to sound others out. I know when our lot all get in the office/pub together on occasion the volume is deafening.

centralheatking

 

[moony]

thats the thing about here - each of us have our own problems and experiences - we never know what the next day brings and if someone on here has been through it and solved it then its great to share the solutions and advice.

cheer chk

 

[carpstu]

hi all bet the building inspector says to glue and screw 1" ply on the sides of the joists and then ply the floor screwing at 6" centres
well thats what ive dont before

 

[moony]

well have a laugh lads....

 

[Henno82]

not so much a notch but a bodge!

 

[PlumbBobBob]

indeed a bodge. i think the worst is the "notch" for the shower waste.

 

[moony]

indeed a bodge. i think the worst is the "notch" for the shower waste.

notch of all notches that isnt it!

 

[carpstu]

erm what size re those joists and how far do the span between sleeper walls or bearers ??

 

[moony]

5 1/2" by 2" and they span 3.8 metres support wall to support wall they have got a wooden beam support about one metre in from supporting wall. we are hoping we can put another small steel support bean same sort of difference from other wall under joists and go about it that way - the building control officer if thats what you call him is getting back to me next week but i can see this being a site engineer visit to be honest.

 

[carpstu]

take it its down stairs you can notch 1 3rd of a joist this would not bother me am a carpenter by trade and as i said before i would ply the side of the joist for some extra strength then 1" ply the floor makeing the floor a complete slab you would have a job on ur hands to get a steel plate/beam under thier to do and good as would have to be i one piece and bear 150mm on to the bearers either side