A nightmare job?

[secret squirrel]

I need some advice from someone wiser,

Today, I looked at a job:

on the face of it, it is to plumb in a radiator which is already fixed to it, about 3 feet above the bath, (modern arty rad), not happy about the pipework as it would have to go under the bath!

Re-site the shower pump and put in a new shower tray and thermo shower.

There is a problem with the pump at the moment, it cuts gets cold when someone turns on a hot tap. I looked at the hwc which is behind a wall panel which had to be removed to gain access, it is in the kitchen and you have to stand on the work surface to see anything.

The immersion wire is about 1.5 metres long and is extremely brittle, it is on a fused spur! (I know this is wrong and needs to be sorted, I think the cable can be a max of 450mm) Anyway, there was only 1 hot water feed from the tank, there is hardly any room to move in the space(this is, I think causing the problem with the power shower).

The shower tray is huge, about 1.5 m by 1.m and is not square it has an oval shape to it. Plumbing the waste is a nightmare, it'll have to go through the bath waste or try and connect to the existing shower waste, the new shower is moving to a different area of the bathroom. The waste can't go straight through the wall because it'll have to contend with a flat roof! (hard to explain but its not going to be easy)

I didn't go to the loft but I am told that the loft tank only feeds the shower and the hot water cylinder.

After the shock of the hwc alarm bells were ringing. The homeowner said he'd do all the work himself if he had the time but is waiting to hear about a new job, may need to sell the house so needs it all done quickly. I was told that other people who have looked at the jobs in the house have wanted to charge ridiculous money.

Here is my dilema! I want to walk away from this one, its just a complete nightmare from start to finish, other more skilled and sensible plumbers have also walked, I'm worried what else I'd find. SO, as a learning curve for me: I think its a 5 day job, worth about £1k, 5 days to cover the nightmares and the £1k should cover contingencies.

Do you agree with this assessment? What other potential issues could I expect to come across? anything that I've not considered?

Please feel free to be critical

 

[dontknowitall]

If it was me I'd go on my first instincts - that job sounds much more like 2 weeks to me and possible delays too.

One of my first jobs was a five bathroom affair and I wanted to walk away but was pursuaded to take it on. It was reasonable (not good) money and it meant my course and van, tools, stock, etc would be paid off.

I ended up being owed £20,000 at one point and was still refused payment for another £2,000. Although I was paid the larger amount my instincts were correct and I ended up being bullied.

I looked at another job a few months ago (plumb in 8 flats with a gas fitter installing the boilers). Phone call from my website. Called in that afternoon and was allowed to start the next day. I walked away. The construction site closed about 6 weeks later and is now abandoned for the time being.

Although money my more immediate concerns were the first job was construction beyond my abilities (at that stage - I can do lots more now!) and the second was my concern of no health and safety policy and when I said I wasn't too sure about the water regs I was told not to worry.

Hope this helps - I'm not saying don't do that job, just trust your instincts. Another big (and much easier) job will come along.

 

[Plouasne]

I need some advice from someone wiser,

Today, I looked at a job:

on the face of it, it is to plumb in a radiator which is already fixed to it, about 3 feet above the bath, (modern arty rad), not happy about the pipework as it would have to go under the bath!

Re-site the shower pump and put in a new shower tray and thermo shower.

There is a problem with the pump at the moment, it cuts gets cold when someone turns on a hot tap. I looked at the hwc which is behind a wall panel which had to be removed to gain access, it is in the kitchen and you have to stand on the work surface to see anything.

The immersion wire is about 1.5 metres long and is extremely brittle, it is on a fused spur! (I know this is wrong and needs to be sorted, I think the cable can be a max of 450mm) Anyway, there was only 1 hot water feed from the tank, there is hardly any room to move in the space(this is, I think causing the problem with the power shower).

The shower tray is huge, about 1.5 m by 1.m and is not square it has an oval shape to it. Plumbing the waste is a nightmare, it'll have to go through the bath waste or try and connect to the existing shower waste, the new shower is moving to a different area of the bathroom. The waste can't go straight through the wall because it'll have to contend with a flat roof! (hard to explain but its not going to be easy)

I didn't go to the loft but I am told that the loft tank only feeds the shower and the hot water cylinder.

After the shock of the hwc alarm bells were ringing. The homeowner said he'd do all the work himself if he had the time but is waiting to hear about a new job, may need to sell the house so needs it all done quickly. I was told that other people who have looked at the jobs in the house have wanted to charge ridiculous money.

Here is my dilema! I want to walk away from this one, its just a complete nightmare from start to finish, other more skilled and sensible plumbers have also walked, I'm worried what else I'd find. SO, as a learning curve for me: I think its a 5 day job, worth about £1k, 5 days to cover the nightmares and the £1k should cover contingencies.

Do you agree with this assessment? What other potential issues could I expect to come across? anything that I've not considered?

Please feel free to be critical

I would walk or do the job on an hourly basis, you do not know what other surprises are waiting to come out of the woodwork, from the sound of things, especially as he's trying to put pressure on you by saying that he wonts the job done quickly

 

[Winston]

Walk, dont quote

 

[david williams]

if the job feels bad when you look at it,either walk away or double the amount you first thought of,dont lett custermer put pressure on you he either wants it done right or not at all

 

[secret squirrel]

Thanks for all the replies so far, they're very much appreciated.

This will be the 2nd job that I would've walked away from. On both of occasions the hairs have stood up on the back of my neck, not a feeling I enjoy.

However, I do feel torn. I'll try and explain, for the more experienced these "red flags" are (I would think) "get me out of here" The fact that the home owner has done a lot of the work just adds to the problem. A little knowledge is dangerous! (Yeah, I know the irony there)

For me, (not in this case) I struggle with the "its a challenge, could be interesting, think how much I could learn from this"

Over riding all this on this job is, if the bill is more than expected he stalls a couple of weeks and before I know it he's gone!

So, I'll walk away and wait for the next one.

 

[NickH]

ALWAYS follow your gut instincts, thats what they are for.

 

[Phil]

As you're experience grows you become more and more confident, I do jobs now that I wouldn't have gone anywhere hear at one time.
If the customer is plesant enough and he seems a good guy then I'd say go for it its the only way to learn; in the deep end.

Break it down into seperate jobs if you want, get him to supply and bits and absolute worst case senerio you do it at a loss then at least you will have learnt from it.

In 2-5 years you'll look back and wonder why you didn't take it on, besides sometimes its the easy jobs that can turn into a nightmare. Like when you're on a quote and you fiddle with something and cause it to leak (happend with me on an old rustly galvanised pipe coming out of concrete) and you're there until 10:00pm trying to fix it.

 

[newbie1]

get your quote then double it and yes i am being serious
if you plan 5 days bill for 10
this could go pear shaped and you would be working for nothing and theres no taste in nothing