A plumbing conundrum in Bulgaria!

[The Plumber Guy]

Hi all,

I'm off to Bulgaria soon to fit a bathroom for a friend and the way the water comes into the house has created a problem with the electric shower (the place is too small for an unvented cylinder). There's no mains supply so a pump is used but the pump only activates when the pressure in the pipes falls below a certain level so it goes on, off, on, off etc. This means the electric shower has more water going through it when the pump comes on and the water goes hot, warm, hot, warm etc.

My solution is to fit an in line pressure reducer, reduce the max pressure to 1 bar so the pressure is then constant and the problem goes away. Does that sound right to you guys? I think I'm on the right lines but I'm not 100% sure and I've yet to see what the Bulgarians have in terms of plumbing products!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

What pressures is the pump triggered at ?

 

[The Plumber Guy]

What pressures is the pump triggered at ?

I think he mentioned 1.5 bar.

 

[Chester]

i work with a Bulgarian and the plumbing over there sounds dangerous frankly. no regulations.

 

[Deleted member 97000]

i work with a Bulgarian and the plumbing over there sounds dangerous frankly. no regulations.

Hi, I'm keen to know, in what way would you describe it as dangerous? You're right though there are no regulations as far as I am aware.

I think I'm on the right lines but I'm not 100% sure and I've yet to see what the Bulgarians have in terms of plumbing products!

Hi, you'll find most common fittings, although I haven't seen many PRVs so I would probably recommend bringing your own from the UK. The same goes from non-return valves, apart from what I've seen used on hot water tanks. They sell isolators, but they are absolute junk. I assume you are aware that the plumbing in BG is carried out using PPR and not copper piping like in the UK? You would need a welder which can be bought from most builder's merchants, but it's a bit tricky to use. You need two pairs of hands! Sorry I can't offer you any help with your project. Coincidentally however, I am also planning on fitting a PRV, but the knowledge I have is only what I've gained through research on the web and therefore I don't quite have the confident to sever my mains incoming feed in order to carry out the installation, so I would be very interested to know how you go on and perhaps maybe one day I'll try and tackle it. I can't tell you how many leaky taps and flexihoses I've had to replace due to high pressure mains water!

 

[The Plumber Guy]

Yes, I've been out there a few times and I'm aware of the pipe welding machine as I burnt my hand the first time I used it - was concentrating on something else and picked it up by the wrong end. Never done that since though! I only have to switch the pump off to isolate the supply as the house is in a village and there's no mains water. A PRV from the UK would probably be a good idea but I've no clue if it would fit that sort of pipe. Best of luck!

 

[Deleted member 97000]

Yes, I've been out there a few times and I'm aware of the pipe welding machine as I burnt my hand the first time I used it - was concentrating on something else and picked it up by the wrong end. Never done that since though! I only have to switch the pump off to isolate the supply as the house is in a village and there's no mains water. A PRV from the UK would probably be a good idea but I've no clue if it would fit that sort of pipe. Best of luck!

Hi sorry to hear about that. Wouldn't want to know how that felt! OK so I've uploaded some pictures of my fittings which I'm assuming you could possibly need in your installation. You would also be helping me at the same time if you could offer me your opinion on whether this would be an appropriate choice of fittings.

So I believe this fitting would prove most essential for incorporating a 15mm fitting into a water line assembled from ф20 PPR piping and ensures easy removal of the fitting for maintenance/ replacement etc.

Please excuse the red striping on the pipework (ran out of blue to match isovalve!):

This is the Predator 15mm PRV made in Australia which I brought over from England:

What do you think? They also make 22mm of those union fittings (or the next size up anyway). By the way, may I ask what part of BG you're heading to?

View attachment DSC_2784.JPG

View attachment DSC_2785.JPG

View attachment DSC_2786.JPG

View attachment DSC_2787.JPG

View attachment DSC_2788.JPG

View attachment DSC_2789.JPG

 

[The Plumber Guy]

Yes that all looks spot on and I think it'll do the job well. I'm not a big fan of plastic isolators but I think we're going to have to use whatever's available. Did you find the 15-20 adapters out there? They look just what I'll need. I'm going to the Bourgas area by the way - about 30 minutes from the city.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

File the end on the prv (where the olive sits normally) so it's not sharp it's flat

 

[Chester]

Hi, I'm keen to know, in what way would you describe it as dangerous? You're right though there are no regulations as far as I am aware.

He said they've only recently started putting pressure reliefs on their unvented setups and anyone can install them etc.. The majority of people are poor there resulting in a LOT of DIY'ing apparently.

 

[Deleted member 97000]

Yes that all looks spot on and I think it'll do the job well. I'm not a big fan of plastic isolators but I think we're going to have to use whatever's available. Did you find the 15-20 adapters out there? They look just what I'll need. I'm going to the Bourgas area by the way - about 30 minutes from the city.

That's great to hear. I'll admit it's the only way I can possibly think of installing such fittings with PPR tubing, although, it's not 100% ideal due to the fact that the PRV is a designed to be fitted by means of compression (olives etc as you know), but copper tubing is practically non-existent here. However, I have seen copper tubing which appears to be 22mm or more and I would imagine to be used in central heating systems, but not water lines. Therefore, PPR is the way to go.

I managed to buy the connectors here yes, however, they're not easy to find in my experience! I got mine from Malmuk, which I was really surprised to see so I was delighted when I found them. Surely though there must be other stores which sell them. I can't remember what they're called now, so if I were you I'd put a picture on your phone and show to one of the staff who work at the store. Just remember that if they nod their head it means no

Don't worry about the plastic isolators, I can assure you they're not as bad as they look. Infact the one I've fitted there is very strong and durable and has a good weight to it. The ball valve inside looks pretty robust too. Typically these are used on the mains coming into the property whereas a gate valve is used outside in the yard (I've been having to use my gate valve as a 'PRV' for the time being to prevent damage to appliances and fittings inside which as you can imagine is NOT a good idea!). The only isolators I would urge you to avoid are the cheap Chinese ones which have a chrome like appearance, but are merely made from carbon, not metal and coated in shiny plastic which usually results in them breaking. They are absolutely inferior and should be avoided at all costs. I brought mine over (the ones which are isolated by means of a screw driver), but I was unsure how to install them at the time (still working out a solution for that actually).
Unfortunately, plumbing over here isn't very straight forward and it's even more difficult the way piping isn't 'boxed in' like back at home. Everything is concealed in the wall, so it's extremely difficult to make alterations to it. Drainage ie. waste traps are a bit tricky also, at least for me. There doesn't seem to be a kit complete with everything in... which I found out yesterday lol.
Sorry for rambling on.

File the end on the prv (where the olive sits normally) so it's not sharp it's flat

Thanks for that Shaun. This is another reason why I was hesitant to go ahead and install incase I encountered continual problems with the washers and I didn't think about filing off the tapered ends so I'll be sure to do that.

He said they've only recently started putting pressure reliefs on their unvented setups and anyone can install them etc.. The majority of people are poor there resulting in a LOT of DIY'ing apparently.

Yeah, you really have to know how to do everything as the so called professionals are poorly trained and generally don't take pride in their work. Furthermore, unlike us, they totally lack is a sense of symmetry!
Cheers.