advice on timer control for Unvented Cylinder

[Jan2238]

Would need some advice if I could replace Newlec Economy to OP Ecosave Timer control for “Unvented Cylinder Megaflo Water heater”

As the current Newlec Economy timer control limits to heat up full tank of water during midnight only( one time a day. )

OP Ecosave Timer control allows to set 2-3 different time slot to heat up full tank hot water by moving the tappets. It is more flexible to have hot water in different time period.
But I do not know if this OP Ecosave is suitable for Unvented Cylinder. Your advice is appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Chuck]

I'm not familiar with the 'OP Ecosave'. Personally, I'd replace that programmer with a Horstmann Electronic 7 unit. I've always been happy with Horstmann products and quality.

 

[Basher]

The older timer you have is made by Horstmann. The one Chuck suggests would be a good replacement, and has electronic controls rather than a mechanical clock, so is more up-to-date.
However, the 'Optimum Ecosave' timer you suggest would work OK as a replacement - internally it does the same job as your existing one, by switching the single incoming mains supply on either with the timeswitch (to the lower immersion) or if you operate the boost button (to the upper immersion).
Both, and indeed other options, would be suitable for your cylinder.
It will require an electrician to isolate and disconnect the cables from the backplate of your present timer, affix and reconnect a new backplate for the Optimum timer, and test it.
If you chose a Horstmann Electronic 7 timer, I believe it would would be a drop-in replacement in the wall box you presently have, so none of the fixed wiring would need to be touched, just the timer module connected to the terminals within the existing box.

Assuming you are on a Economy 7 tariff with your electricity supplier, if you set 'on' times outside the E7 hours (midnight? to 7am?), you will be paying daytime rate for the electricity - approximately three times more costly!
That is why the timeclock is set to heat the whole tank overnight, leaving you to boost it if needed during the day.
If you are constantly running out of hot water during the day, either the timer is not set to be on long enough over night to heat the tank fully (unlikely), or your tank is not big enough to meet your needs! Though fixing the latter is no doubt even more costly than paying for daytime electricity 🙂

 

[Jan2238]

The older timer you have is made by Horstmann. The one Chuck suggests would be a good replacement, and has electronic controls rather than a mechanical clock, so is more up-to-date. However, the 'Optimum Ecosave' timer you suggest would work OK as a replacement - internally it does the same job as your existing one, by switching the single incoming mains supply on either with the timeswitch (to the lower immersion) or if you operate the boost button (to the upper immersion). Both, and indeed other options, would be suitable for your cylinder. It will require an electrician to isolate and disconnect the cables from the backplate of your present timer, affix and reconnect a new backplate for the Optimum timer, and test it. If you chose a Horstmann Electronic 7 timer, I believe it would would be a drop-in replacement in the wall box you presently have, so none of the fixed wiring would need to be touched, just the timer module connected to the terminals within the existing box. Assuming you are on a Economy 7 tariff with your electricity supplier, if you set 'on' times outside the E7 hours (midnight? to 7am?), you will be paying daytime rate for the electricity - approximately three times more costly! That is why the timeclock is set to heat the whole tank overnight, leaving you to boost it if needed during the day. If you are constantly running out of hot water during the day, either the timer is not set to be on long enough over night to heat the tank fully (unlikely), or your tank is not big enough to meet your needs! Though fixing the latter is no doubt even more costly than paying for daytime electricity 🙂

The older timer you have is made by Horstmann. The one Chuck suggests would be a good replacement, and has electronic controls rather than a mechanical clock, so is more up-to-date. However, the 'Optimum Ecosave' timer you suggest would work OK as a replacement - internally it does the same job as your existing one, by switching the single incoming mains supply on either with the timeswitch (to the lower immersion) or if you operate the boost button (to the upper immersion). Both, and indeed other options, would be suitable for your cylinder. It will require an electrician to isolate and disconnect the cables from the backplate of your present timer, affix and reconnect a new backplate for the Optimum timer, and test it. If you chose a Horstmann Electronic 7 timer, I believe it would would be a drop-in replacement in the wall box you presently have, so none of the fixed wiring would need to be touched, just the timer module connected to the terminals within the existing box. Assuming you are on a Economy 7 tariff with your electricity supplier, if you set 'on' times outside the E7 hours (midnight? to 7am?), you will be paying daytime rate for the electricity - approximately three times more costly! That is why the timeclock is set to heat the whole tank overnight, leaving you to boost it if needed during the day. If you are constantly running out of hot water during the day, either the timer is not set to be on long enough over night to heat the tank fully (unlikely), or your tank is not big enough to meet your needs! Though fixing the latter is no doubt even more costly than paying for daytime electricity 🙂

 

[Jan2238]

Thank you very much for your advice and explanation.
Electronic timer control is not easy to do setting.
Yes, I would need extra full tank water in day time using the day rate /peak rate. So, the E7 timer I need should allow to set different /multi time slot of peak hour to heat up the water using the bottom element.
Boost mode can supply very little hot water as only heating by top element only.

Please advise if remove the timer switch is helpful. both elements can operate the same time and they can keep the water fully heated. Once the tank water is heated to temperature like 60C that triggers the the thermostat to shut off.

 

[Basher]

Please advise if remove the timer switch is helpful. both elements can operate the same time and they can keep the water fully heated. Once the tank water is heated to temperature like 60C that triggers the the thermostat to shut off.

The wiring in your house from the consumer unit (fuse box) to the timer, and the circuit breaker in the fuse box, will almost certainly not be capable of running both immersion heaters at once, so you cannot have both immersion heaters on at the same time, without having an electrician change the wiring to a more substantial cable and circuit breaker first.
(2 x 3kW heaters = 6kW = 26Amps. Your cable probably 2.5 sq mm rated at 20A and circuit breaker 16A, so not suitable)

The timers we have discussed are designed to run just one immersion heater at a time.
I would not recommend trying to run both heaters simultaneously.

You could have the timer removed and replaced with a fused spur connected just to the bottom immersion, and run that all the time (or as you need), but then you don't have the possibility of 'boost' (which may not matter)

If you prefer a mechanical time switch with tappets, which is easy to use, the one you suggested would be fine.
If you had that installed, you could set all the tappets to be on all the time if you need. Otherwise you might find setting a few on periods during the day will suffice.
Best wishes for resolving this.

 

[Jan2238]

Hi Baster, Thank you so much for your detailed information and explanation . It is very helpful. A mechanical time switch with tappets set with multi time slot will suit me best. Thanks again for your great advice.

 

[Jan2238]

The wiring in your house from the consumer unit (fuse box) to the timer, and the circuit breaker in the fuse box, will almost certainly not be capable of running both immersion heaters at once, so you cannot have both immersion heaters on at the same time, without having an electrician change the wiring to a more substantial cable and circuit breaker first.
(2 x 3kW heaters = 6kW = 26Amps. Your cable probably 2.5 sq mm rated at 20A and circuit breaker 16A, so not suitable)

The timers we have discussed are designed to run just one immersion heater at a time.
I would not recommend trying to run both heaters simultaneously.

You could have the timer removed and replaced with a fused spur connected just to the bottom immersion, and run that all the time (or as you need), but then you don't have the possibility of 'boost' (which may not matter)

If you prefer a mechanical time switch with tappets, which is easy to use, the one you suggested would be fine.
If you had that installed, you could set all the tappets to be on all the time if you need. Otherwise you might find setting a few on periods during the day will suffice.
Best wishes for resolving this.

Hi Baster, Thank you so much for your detailed information and explanation . It is very helpful. A mechanical time switch with tappets set with multi time slot will suit me best. Thanks again for your great advice.