Advice on water softener instalation please

[Tommc]

Evening everyone, i have just got myself a water softener and wanted your expert advice as to the plumbing side of it, i have attached a pictur with how the pipe work is now and what i am planning to do regarding the installation but wanted to know if you all thought it was the best way to go, the current pipework is for the cold fresh water that also has the feed for the dishwasher, although i would rather the dishwasher ran off the soft water, is this a good way to go or does anyone think i could plan it better, im sure the pipes are 15mm but its close to the wall and my pipe cutter wont go all the way round, any tips also for cutting these pipes, what will i be needing to buy to to complete the job?, im not a plumber but a decent diy'er so im sorry if these question seem a bit dumb to you, thanks in advance people

 

[Tommc]

also if i can use the old stopcock to shut off the water i will put new pipe work in and move the newer stopcock down further to give myself more room for the work i need to do, is that a good idea ?

 

[PlumbBobBob]

the new stopcock needs to be the same sort as the old one, not a gate valve, they're only designed for low pressure.

 

[Tommc]

the new stopcock needs to be the same sort as the old one, not a gate valve, they're only designed for low pressure.

im not going to replace the current newer red one just move it down more to give me more room to work with, but if i cant turn the water supply off using the older one then i wont be able to, does that make sense

 

[Ray Stafford]

I think what Steve was saying is that the red-handled valve that you are describing as a stopcock, is NOT a stopcock.

It is a gatevalve - and therefore not designed for a high pressure (mains) supply. Do not rely on it to hold mains pressure, because that isn't what it is meant for.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

lol thanks for the translation ray

 

[Tommc]

I think what Steve was saying is that the red-handled valve that you are describing as a stopcock, is NOT a stopcock.

It is a gatevalve - and therefore not designed for a high pressure (mains) supply. Do not rely on it to hold mains pressure, because that isn't what it is meant for.

oh right now i understand, i thought it was the stopcock and has been what i use when doing any work to the boiler or having to switch the water off to the house, if i can use the old stopcock to switch the mains water off then i will replace the newer one with the right part, the guy who lived here before was a real cowboy when it came to home DIY, i would rather spend more and do it right, so i should replace the red one with a better stronger valve

 

[Tommc]

lol thanks for the translation ray

sorry if i came across as thick or rude, it wasnt meant steve, never really done much plumbing work till recently so i just took it as being the stopcock for the mains water but i will replace it with the right thing, but all that aside does what i have planned seem good or could i improve it ?, again thanks for taking your free time to reply

 

[PETE 123]

Main water has to go direct to kitchen tap for drinking water (important)

 

[Tommc]

Main water has to go direct to kitchen tap for drinking water (important)

yeah i was going to run the mains water for drinking below the input and output pipes for the water softener, would that be right

 

[PlumbBobBob]

sorry if i came across as thick or rude, it wasnt meant steve, never really done much plumbing work till recently so i just took it as being the stopcock for the mains water but i will replace it with the right thing, but all that aside does what i have planned seem good or could i improve it ?, again thanks for taking your free time to reply

not a problem tom

 

[Tommc]

not a problem tom

sorry steve but if i put a proper stopcock in does what im planning seeem ok ?

 

[PlumbBobBob]

yes it does. put the stopcock where the compression straight is just above the old stopcock is. where the gate valve is put a comp tee to feed the softener, and don't forget the kitchen tap needs un-softened water. also your boiler may need un-softened water.

 

[capitanpugwash]

the new stopcock needs to be the same sort as the old one, not a gate valve, they're only designed for low pressure.

I've seen high pressure gate valves around with Max 9 bar accross the handle. Maybe they were once low pressure but modern designs allow high pressure applications?

 

[Mike Jackson]

Gate valves can only be used as a main isolating valve in a property on pipes over 50mm diameter.

 

[Tommc]

yes it does. put the stopcock where the compression straight is just above the old stopcock is. where the gate valve is put a comp tee to feed the softener, and don't forget the kitchen tap needs un-softened water. also your boiler may need un-softened water.

Cheer Steve, will crack on with that today

 

[Frelon]

Hi, you will find the current water regulations with regard to installing a water softener here. Lots of good info and advice (plus diagrams).

It seems that you have plenty of space for doing your plumbing mods, so well done.

Do not worry about your water softener and your boiler. Sadly there seem to be more old wives tales about this potential problem and no real facts, especially from the boiler manufacturers.

There was a thread on another forum which covered this in some detail. Have a look here.

If you plumb the dish washer to use your soft water you will save money by not having to buy salt for the dish washer! Oh and enjoy your soft water.

 

[kay-jay]

if the old stop tap doesnt work then isolate in the street/backstreet to allow the repositioning of a more suitable stoptap than the current gatevalve

 

[Tommc]

if the old stop tap doesnt work then isolate in the street/backstreet to allow the repositioning of a more suitable stoptap than the current gatevalve

thats exactly what i was planning kay-jay, been having a load of trouble getting the small pear shaped lid off the outside stopcock cover to isolate then stick the new stopcock on, need to wait till friday for essex and suffolk water to come out and sort it, also if any one can give me a bit of info on this, the overflow can go into the waste pipes under the sink, im also planning on putting the brine tank line into there rather than drill through the wall and into the drain, would this be ok to do ?

 

[RGII79]

waste is usually gravity on the ones i install and you also need overflow so make sure you have a fall from outlet to waste pipe

 

[Frelon]

The outlet from the brine regeneration is under pressure (and can to a certain extent go uphill), so this can be fed to the waste pipes under the sink which are normally used for dish washer waste.

However, your overflow is exactly that and should ideally go (downhill) through the wall to a drain outside. Under normal circumstances you will see nothing from this outlet, but in this position (outside) you can keep an eye on it. If there is any water coming from here then there is a malfunction with your softener.

Which model are you installing?

BTW if you do not have a convenient outlet under your sink for the brine regeneration you can think about one of these.

 

[Frelon]

.....and if any plumbers need more information regarding the fears of using water softeners with modern boilers, have a look here. There is no evidence to support the rumours.

 

[Tommc]

The outlet from the brine regeneration is under pressure (and can to a certain extent go uphill), so this can be fed to the waste pipes under the sink which are normally used for dish washer waste.

However, your overflow is exactly that and should ideally go (downhill) through the wall to a drain outside. Under normal circumstances you will see nothing from this outlet, but in this position (outside) you can keep an eye on it. If there is any water coming from here then there is a malfunction with your softener.

Which model are you installing?

BTW if you do not have a convenient outlet under your sink for the brine regeneration you can think about one of these.

It's a calsoft up to 8 one, not brand new and with the pipe for the brine missing so I got some washing machine pipe and will take the ends off and jubilee clip one to the softener and was planning on cutting a hole in the sink waste pipe and running to the outside drain that way as the dishwasher is already under the sink, I know there would be a higher chance of a blockage but don't know wether to give it a go or not, it will flow downhill all the way

 

[Tommc]

.....and if any plumbers need more information regarding the fears of using water softeners with modern boilers, have a look here. There is no evidence to support the rumours.

i wasnt sure as to what was best so i just bought some of that sentinel x100 to put in through one of the rads, am i best emptying the boiler and flushing the system through with a hose pipe connected to the outside tap and then adding this before filling up with the soft water , im sorry for all the questions gents