Am I being ripped off?

[Weetoe]

I'm not sure if anyone can advise me on this but.....

I renovated a house earlier this year and I've been charged 40 hours @ £40 p/h for the work the plumber did in the kitchen & bathroom, and I'm trying to decided whether this is reasonable or not... seems excessive to me but then I'm not a plumber. The work done was:

Ripping out
1. Remove existing kitchen sink
2. Disconnect existing gas cooker
3. Disconnect & remove bathroom sink
4. Disconnect & remove toilet
5. Disconnect & remove showertray
6. Disconnect electric shower

Installation
1. Install new kitchen sink in same location as old
2. Connect dishwasher beside sink
3. Connect gas cooker in same location as old
4. Install new utility sink (water supply already ran as far as the boiler in the utility and sink is beside boiler)
5. Connect washing machine beside utility sink
6. Install toilet
7. Install bathroom sink
8. Install soaker shower & 4 body jets (ie not an electric shower)
9. Connect waste for shower (wet room floor using an aquadec floor)
10. Install glass shower screen

The aquadec floor was installed by the joiner who was working on site at the same time. The shower has only the shower head/jets exposed in the bathroom (no pipes) but the pipes are exposed in the cupboard next to the bathroom.... there was no channelling/burying required).

The positioning of the original toilet and sink were changed, the bath room is small at <2mtr x <2mtr so he wasn't having to extend the waste pipes on excessive runs.

The house was being completely ripped out so had bare floorboards, back to plaster walls so there was nothing in the way which stopped his progress and floorboards could be easily lifted etc. Both kitchen and bathroom are downstairs.

I'd be interested to know what the experts think?

Thanks

 

[bobpape]

Was it labour only or supply and fit

 

[Weetoe]

Labour only... he did supply some parts (pipes etc) which have obviously been charged for too, but the shower, toilet, sinks etc were not supplied by him

 

[Puddle]

Why did you go for a day rate and not a price,what part of the uk are you,was shower and body jets one unit that came already made up ?

 

[paul H]

if you agreed to £40 / hr and the man has a record of the work done / time sheets
then pay him.
you dont take a cab then argue the cost at the end of the trip--- well i dont anyway

 

[Weetoe]

East Scotland - shower was a head, valve & 4 separate jets.... came as a pack but weren't made up.

Paul - I don't normally quibble, and indeed every other contractor was paid within 7 days. Problem is his timesheets don't match with mine, and I think he was working excessively slowly which we could all do when being paid by the hour but it doesn't make it ethical. If his timesheets were to be believed then it took him 18 hours to do the final fix (ie all pipes etc had been installed and only final installation/connections were being made). In reality he was here for 13 hrs doing this, not the 18 hours logged and I still feel that is a long time for final fix.

 

[dontknowitall]

Earlier this year I took my (not so) old land rover to a dealer to be fixed rather than a local mechanic who was much cheaper. The five visits cost me well over £2,000 whereas my mechanic who would have probably charged me nearer £500.

I bought a Dyson vacuum cleaner a few years ago for £250. I bought another (better one!) from Jewsons for £60 last year.

A few years ago we hired an electrician to re-wire a house - it took him 4 months.

Sometimes we make the wrong decisions.

Sometimes jobs take longer than expected but 5 days to do the above seems reasonable to me. Assuming you agreed before he started the work to pay him for £40 per hour then he should be paid. Talk to him about the hours - I'm sure he won't bite!!

 

[Aqua Mechanica]

I normally charge £20 an hour and I live in London.

 

[Bernie2]

I am not going to even mention £40 per hour being a bit steep!

The reality is, there is no set rate for anybody employed or self employed, its left up to the individual to decide.

 

[stevetheplumber]

buyer beware wish i could find customers like you

 

[johnsco]

Wish I could get a regular £40 an hour.
My local garage charges £40 per hour, but then he has large premises and about half a million quids-worth of kit.
I work self-employed with my own tools, and I can't hope to get £40 per hour on a regular basis.

 

[justlead1]

Hi. The question puts plumbers between rock and hard place when asked to comment. I personally have always asked the client what his/her budget for the proposed works was, and given them an opinion on the existing system in relation to the proposed changes and a price to complete the works to a standard which will fulfill there expectations However in the event of the client needing a visit in the future with a problem associated with the work, i deem it to be part of the service. (not chargeable) As there is a built in percentage to cover such situations (good will)
From the sound of it your plumber is/was corgi registered he carried out the work at a time agreed and in a time agreed, he may well have made an error regarding the hours on the time sheet. Challenge him, and show the evidence you have. Bear in mind 40 hour is a nice round 5 day week, perhaps like me he dont like half days for half days pay and no where to work to make up the deficit? If the job has been carried out to a good standard and you are happy with the completed work and service, pay the man, as the price is not extortionate.

 

[A1P]

Having paid all other trades promptly you clearly have an issue with the plumber.If you agreed £40 an hour , you have an obligation to pay at that rate.If you feel that the plumber has exploited this by working slowly,main fault of hourly rate for customer,or you dispute his hours ,which you do,then clearly you must discuss it.Ideally you dont want to accuse him of 'ripping you off' because if he has done a decent job,he clearly hasn't.However it is difficult to tactfully say you think he has been pushing it time-wise at such a 'strong' hourly rate.As Bernie said there is no correct rate,it is a matter of agreement between customer and tradesman.Personally I would be doing cartwheels at £320 +materials for an 8 hour day.Some would base their day on £40 1st hour £20 thereafter.Only you know what was agreed.If you have no complaints about the work,your issue is that you have overpaid to some extent due to the payment method being exploited a bit.Scope for COMPROMISE !!! or pay and resolve to work differently when you employ someone.

 

[Smcart5]

In his defense this is all assuming that every job went exactly to plan, took how long he thought it would, no unforeseen problems occurred and extra parts were not needed, i very much doubt it went from a to b that smoothly...

 

[david williams]

40 an hour quite reasonable, if you are a legitimate buisness,vans ,insurences,advertizing,tools,pension scheme,etc etc.

 

[Sanke]

As has been said beforfe there are two points to consider
1) Assuming you agreed the £40 then you should pay that without question
2) The hours, if the two of you are as far apart as you say you should discuss this with him. I would rather discuss something with a customer & ensure we part amicably than have a disgruntled customer who didnt bother to talk to me.

 

[Weetoe]

Thank you for all the feedback it is making interesting reading. I'm not an awkward customer type and have no problem paying a decent price for a decent job.

When I did ask him to provide further information about the hours, it took him 4 months to get the information to me and informed me that he had made a mistake... it should have been 73 hours... but he'll stick to 40 as an act of goodwill. The breakdown showed dates and number of hours worked on those dates. There were days when I was present all day and know that the 8 hours quoted for these days he was only here for 5.5 hours. The inaccurate information and the length of time taken to deliver the inaccurate information did nothing to reassure me that his initial bill was correct and reasonable, hence the post here.

As the renovation was 3 month project it was really down to him whether he worked full days or half days - I did not enforce any restrictions on this. There were a couple of deadlines to meet (to enable the plasterer/joiner/tiler to do their bit) but these were set well in advance so weren't unreasonable demands

 

[bobpape]

Strange but when I first looked at the spec I considered it a £2000.00 job, looks like I was right.

 

[A1P]

Heck,this has dragged on for 4 months+!!!!! He thinks he has worked 73 hours but will stick to his 'goodwill' 40 hours.You seemed to be saying in earlier postings you doubted if he had done 40 hours. You were not there all the time he was working so neither party can claim to be correct.Time to settle he has waited a long time for payment if I understand your last post.You have got a nicely renovated property with no issues re-plumbing.Time for closure.At the worst you are a few hours light,from his point of view he thinks he has done at least 40 hours,although quite why he would make a mistake robbing himself of 33 hours only he knows.Surely you both can finally agree.This is not a Cowboy tradesman situation.

 

[dontknowitall]

I wonder if some of these missing hours are time spent going to the suppliers to buy materials and ordering stuff before the job started?

 

[Aqua Mechanica]

Also, bear in mind that Pimlico Plumbers charge £90 per hour. Half goes to the Plumber and half to the Company.

 

[GreenArmy]

As the thread heading.. Am I Bring Ripped Off? In my opinion no, your not being ripped off if the job is good and you've got the plumbing system you desired. Although in hindsight you should of got him on price work.

 

[justlead1]

Hi Weetoe What has come to light is not what i invisaged. I thought a 40 hour week. That which you have experienced and in some cases i have created for clients. Is the product of poor communication. As a plumber the dilemma is, if i ask for and interim payment the client may feel i wont come back or i dont trust him. As for admin, most one man bands are practical people, who's admin skill are lacking. Plus the job is looking like good value when numerous visits and evaluations have taken place. I don't think its a ripe off but a masive learning curve for both yourself and the plumber. Good Luck

 

[REDSAW]

did he put in 40 hours work or was he in and out or drinking tea all day?
if he put in 40 hours work and told you before-hand it's £40 per hour then thats the price.
if he only put in 35 hours then challenge it.
think i whould have charged same for this work even if i could have done it in 10 hours, times less rellavent, its the quality and expectation of what you have for your money.
i have had £150 tips before for less work.

 

[Puddle]

I think 40 hrs very acceptable for works carried out especially over a job lasting such a long period of time,you do not comment on any problems with work carried out so persume you are happy with works done and operations,the only question is the £40.00 hr charge,which I find acceptable,if a fully ligitamate bussiness
you know he was on day rate and had ample time over a job that lasted this long to pull him up about it
I bet with a job lasting this long,he had quite a bit of messing about, he did not charge for