Another intermittent f and e overflowing

[armyash]

Been to look at an f and e that overflows intermittently.

Three port is OK.

Property has 2mixer taps - kitchen and basin, I haven't checked these yet as I said I can pop in for a chat as Cust was due to go out, had a quick look in the loft.

Have added a picture of the tanks. Will raising the F and E sort it out or should I be looking at the taps first?

Ball valves are new, they had changed 6weeks ago.

Vent pipe and cold feed pipes in airing cupboard going to loft are both warm.
Pump speed 2.

Dont want to go for the cylinder unless I have to.

View attachment DSC_1176.JPG

 

[Best]

Taps are not anything to do with the f&e tank water. I think you are getting confused with jobs where cylinder coils corroding and causing lowest tank to overflow. Or mixer taps allowing mains to pass to hot, then through cylinder and up cylinder feed pipe, creating overflow from large cwt.
Your problem might be the level of water is too high in the f&e tank and the slight water expansion when heating is on will raise water to overflow outlet.
The water in those tanks should be about 4” deep max. They are called 10 gallon/4 gallon tanks to indicate 4 gallon actual. They are only top up and expansion tanks and not for storage.
Maybe just a new washer on ballvalve, or replace entire valve and adjust water level to just 4” deep. Although it wouldn't surprise me if the f&e tank ballvalve was always set for wrong water level

 

[Chalked]

How’s the feed and vent arranged?
Might have a blocked air seperator, or sludge collector as we call them!
Partially blocked cold feed can cause this too.

 

[armyash]

No air separator.

Cold feed and vent and teed right next to each other.

Would it be pointless to raise the F and E tank?

Customer has said when it starts to overflow, if they run the some water off from the taps it stops.

 

[king of pipes]

As best has said a tap would not cause a overflow problem in your f&e tank you definitely need to reduce the water level in the tank to no more than half way . how does the cold feed and vent join into the system ?you mayhave a blockage . cheers kop

 

[armyash]

I understand that, I have told the customer to call me next time it overflows so I can see what is happening.

They have said they have been taking water out of the tank themselve but then the problem reoccurs.

Have said they also occasionally get dirty water from the tap.

 

[Chalked]

Is it a primatic cylinder??

 

[armyash]

Is it a primatic cylinder??

No its not.

The customer has said when it over flows he turns the taps on and it stops. He could be wrong, I went outside and looked at the overflows to make sure he wasnt getting the wrong tank.

I've said call me when it overflows again so I can see for myself if running the taps makes a difference.

 

[Best]

Taps can’t link into that heating f&e tank.
Let’s say there was mains water passing through a mixer somewhere. The mains would push up into cwt. It can’t go into f&e tank.
Different problem - If the coil in the cylinder was split, that would allow the highest water (the water in cwt in your job) to go to the lower tank (the f&e tank in your job) and overflow it, either constantly or intermittently depending if coil crack is opening or not when heating going.
The taps being turned on shouldn’t then remove water.
Just check firstly water level in f&e tank and if near overflow level check if ballvalve try’s to fill back to that level when you remove water.
If not the ballvalve level problem, then check for feed pipe blockage.

 

[armyash]

Yeah that's what I have been thinking. It's the customer saying opening the taps and the overflow stops running is what is making thinking its unusual.

So if I remove the water from the F and E and the ball valve starts to fill the tank then it's the ball valve? It's brand new but I know that doesn't mean it can't be faulty.

If the ball valve doesn't refill the tank then it's a blockage?

Or a split coil?

 

[Best]

Yes, if ballvalve is filling back to near overflow, then it is faulty, or fitted for too high level of water.
If it isn’t that, then must be blockage in feed pipe to heating, or split coil.
(If you are looking to see if coil is split, you will see the water coming up the feed of the f&e tank if you drain it first. Could be just a tiny amount though. Also test with heating running)

 

[Ted808]

Last job where the fault was intermittent the feed/expansion was blocked- check with a magnet near the T... opening the tap probably just diverts mains supply to taps and not f+e, by the time they stop running the tap the water level in f+e has seeped through the partial blockage... good luck - let us know how you get on.

 

[mikeygas]

What part ball valve is fitted I.e part 1 or part 2?

 

[armyash]

Thanks for all the replies, I had another look and spoke to them 2 days ago and they said it hasn't happened since. Weird.

 

[Ric2013]

Sorry if I'm teaching my grandmother how to suck eggs, but by the F+E, you DO mean the small cistern that is connected to the primary system (i.e. boiler and radiators)?

Out of curiosity, if the valves are new, why is the arm bent on the Part 2 valve?

 

[WaterTight]

Probably cos some yutz drilled the holes in the cistern at the wrong height meaning even set at it's lowest the level is too high.

I think the Pegler float valves have a longer vertical bit of arm which might be a good argument for having one of the van. For me though I'll just bend it a bit and get on with bigger problems.

"opening the tap probably just diverts mains supply to taps and not f+e, by the time they stop running the tap the water level in f+e has seeped through the partial blockage..." as said above sounds like the answer to the riddle of the tap appearing to have an effect