Any advice would be appreciated

[Old Account]

I would like to install a new Vaillant boiler for one of my customers.

I am unsure which model as i wanted to install the Vsmart controller too. I read that some of the boilers aren’t competiable with this controller.


Vaillant ecofit pure 825 or ecotec pro 24kw, ecotec plus 825 with vsmart combi control pack

Obviously with all safety components filters and scale reducers etc...


I want to install the Vsmart because of the weather compensation sensor and having a smart controller.

I will upgrade all rad valves to thermostatic too

So, if I install the Vsmart do I need something else for the weather compensation ? If so, what will I require ?


Will that all cover boiler plus ?


Thanks,

Ron

 

[townfanjon]

Yep well covers boiler plus .
Dont do Vaillant’s pal so cant help on that , pretty sure harvest and kopsta do em

 

[Harvest Fields]

Is there a reason you want to do weather comp mate? Where is the boiler going to be fitted? Weather comp means the boiler will cycle when it is cold outside. If in a bedroom cupboard it may be noisy. I use either the 350f or the vrt50 with the 150 timer mswitch which gives load compensation.

 

[Old Account]

Is there a reason you want to do weather comp mate? Where is the boiler going to be fitted? Weather comp means the boiler will cycle when it is cold outside. If in a bedroom cupboard it may be noisy. I use either the 350f or the vrt50 with the 150 timer mswitch which gives load compensation.

Hello Harvest,

Well, there is not a particular reason but in general it is designed to reduce the amount of gas usage as well as it’s totally common in Germany to install weather compensation. The boiler will be installed in the kitchen ( cupboard ). If I decided to install the Vsmart combi pack will I need something additional for the weather compensation ? Or will that come in one pack along with the controller ( sensor nd controller ) ?
It will only cycle when the temperature drops below the setups. For instance if you set the temp to 15 degrees it will only start running when the temperature drops bel5555ow 15 and when the temperature drops inside the house.
If you have still 23 degrees it won’t start to cycle as it’s not needed.

However @Harvest Fields and @townfanjon , thanks for your help so far.

Much appreciate it.

Thumbs up

 

[Scott_D]

Is it me or is weather comp a bit difficult.
You set the curve but you can't really test its correct?
You don't want to be going back a handful of times to check and you can't explain to most people how it works,

 

[Harvest Fields]

Is it me or is weather comp a bit difficult.
You set the curve but you can't really test its correct?
You don't want to be going back a handful of times to check and you can't explain to most people how it works,

The curve is only a guide. I do not like the fact it is only a guide and you use the closest number to it.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Hello Harvest,

Well, there is not a particular reason but in general it is designed to reduce the amount of gas usage as well as it’s totally common in Germany to install weather compensation. The boiler will be installed in the kitchen ( cupboard ). If I decided to install the Vsmart combi pack will I need something additional for the weather compensation ? Or will that come in one pack along with the controller ( sensor nd controller ) ?
It will only cycle when the temperature drops below the setups. For instance if you set the temp to 15 degrees it will only start running when the temperature drops bel5555ow 15 and when the temperature drops inside the house.
If you have still 23 degrees it won’t start to cycle as it’s not needed.

However @Harvest Fields and @townfanjon , thanks for your help so far.

Much appreciate it.

Thumbs up

You need the 700 kit if you want an actual weather sensor mate.

 

[Old Account]

Is it me or is weather comp a bit difficult.
You set the curve but you can't really test its correct?
You don't want to be going back a handful of times to check and you can't explain to most people how it works,

You can set the heating curve, just done it recently on a ecofit model. I believe the manufacturer settings are 1.2 but I can’t remember 100%.

I guess the hearing curve is between 0.2-4 and can be settled in the installation mode d43. Also d45 can be adjusted as well as d00 for maximum heat output. These are the most important things according to a mate from Vaillant.

 

[Old Account]

You need the 700 kit if you want an actual weather sensor mate.

Thanks harvest it’s much appreciate it!!! It’s hard to write a quote with being abroad. That’s why the late replies from my site!

Thumbs up

 

[Scott_D]

Unless you set it up on the coldest winter day I don't see how you can achieve maximum efficiency.

 

[Old Account]

Unless you set it up on the coldest winter day I don't see how you can achieve maximum efficiency.

You will set it up for instance 13 degrees and the boiler will only cycle when the temperature drops below this but in the same time the room temperature needs to be lower then the initial setups like 21 degrees. It will run a lot less and therefore you will reduce the amount of gas usage. But also too it would be good to have the boilers with the second heat exchanger or passive heat recovery that will also help to reduce the amount of gas usage. The temperature of the flue gases will be passed onto the mains I coming water and therefore ore heats it instead of wasting its energy. It’s just confusing for me here as all controls are different then in Germany. That’s the way my vaillant mate has explained me that

 

[Old Account]

You need the 700 kit if you want an actual weather sensor mate.

Do I need just the 700f ... haven’t installed this type of controller yet so therefore a little bit cautious

 

[king of pipes]

I seriously would not bother ron i have weather comp on the atag its simply not warm enough for the wife so have had to disabled it , better to fit the vsmart with load compensation keep systems simple as they need to be to avoid user error callouts it will cause you no end of grief other wise . cheers kop

 

[Harvest Fields]

I seriously would not bother ron i have weather comp on the atag its simply not warm enough for the wife so have had to disabled it , better to fit the vsmart with load compensation keep systems simple as they need to be to avoid user error callouts it will cause you no end of grief other wise . cheers kop

I’m actually with you mate. I try and keep it as simple as possible

 

[Welder]

... its simply not warm enough for the wife so have had to disabled it ...

Therein lies the rub with compensation. WARNING - sexist generalisation approaching... Women are simply the worst for this reaction. When they're cold they expect the rads to be boiling. When they are warm they expect them to be freezing. It's the same in the car. Even with digital heating controls they turn the heating up to Hi if they're cold and down to Lo when they're warm. They simply cannot 'get' that they are wasting, energy & money by not setting a desired temp like 22 degs. They can not/will not understand that things DO NOT heat up/cool down any quicker. Even my wife, who has lived through and shared all my experience in this industry and the controls industry, still does it FFS!

Compensation today is compromised. It relies on simple slopes as we had in the early 80s instead of having embedded sensors in the building fabric to reflect the thermal capacity of the building envelope.

Neither do they have external temperature sensors to monitor the real local conditions. Instead it all relies upon generic local weather from tinterweb which, at its very best, can only give good local data for a maximum of 10-15% of homes due to there being so few monitoring points.

We have compensated flow at home, but I also monitor external temp on the north side of the building, wind speed and a temp sensor buried in the wall to measure thermal mass performance. Told you I was sad!! It works flawlessly now its tuned but I get the general point that one would have to keep altering the slope to get the best performance and people simply are not interested enough to take that on board these days.

 

[Old Account]

So

I seriously would not bother ron i have weather comp on the atag its simply not warm enough for the wife so have had to disabled it , better to fit the vsmart with load compensation keep systems simple as they need to be to avoid user error callouts it will cause you no end of grief other wise . cheers kop

load comp is just installed easy with the vsmar correct? I do not need any other stuff for it. I definitely get your point with the call outs and setting it up ... I think I’ll stick to the load comp then. Thanks for the good advice it’s much appreciated

 

[king of pipes]

Correct ron i am not saying never use it but on upgrades or boiler swaps i would keep it simple , new builds have alot higher insulation values and can retain heat comfort levels at a lower input tempreture , also match the system to the customer the tech savy apple user would suit a more complicated system , Mr& Mrs Jones perhaps not. Enjoy your hols mate cheers kop

 

[king of pipes]

My point exactly Dave keep it simple i have a complex system in my home weather comp heat recovery ,smart control, switched energy supplier and have a smart meter to monitormy exact gas and electric useage but would i try and sell that to the majority of my customers honest anwer is no, a few maybe would they want to pay the extra cost enabling them to make these savings maybe. Kop

 

[Old Account]

My point exactly Dave keep it simple i have a complex system in my home weather comp heat recovery ,smart control, switched energy supplier and have a smart meter to monitormy exact gas and electric useage but would i try and sell that to the majority of my customers honest anwer is no, a few maybe would they want to pay the extra cost enabling them to make these savings maybe. Kop

I definitely understand what you mean. I wouldn’t offer smart controls either for elderly people but for someone who wants it. It’s quite true about the insulation though, in uk hardly any property is insulated and a lot of people have still single glazed windows. As you said i will go with Vsmart instead and leave the weather comp to the side. Thanks for your honest advice.

 

[Old Account]

Correct ron i am not saying never use it but on upgrades or boiler swaps i would keep it simple , new builds have alot higher insulation values and can retain heat comfort levels at a lower input tempreture , also match the system to the customer the tech savy apple user would suit a more complicated system , Mr& Mrs Jones perhaps not. Enjoy your hols mate cheers kop

The difference between 700/f and Vsmart is that you don’t need an additional weather compensation sensor outside because it takes its readings from the internet to operate as an weather comp too. You also got a heating curve but it is more precise than the 700/f. Basically it’s designed to be installed 3/4 bedroom properties. Furthermore the app does weather forecasts and knows how much heat you actually require to get the desired temperature. The majority of people don’t understand that they do not need fully roasting hot rads to achieve the required room temperature. It will achieve the same in the same time and a lot more precise with warm radiators. The only slight issue is when setting the boiler up you require the customers phone, WiFi to open an account. Everything needs to be installed via the app as you can only see at the vsmart controller the actual temperature and the desired one. The controller is so intelligent that it knows after 4/5 weeks how much energy you need to warm the rooms. It will know the customer requires at 4:30pm 22 degrees and it’s currently 19,4 so it will know it perhaps needs 2h of heat with 50/55 degrees flow temperature to achieve the desired room temperature. The app is 100% ifttt competiable it’s a free internet home protocol app which can safe logical things like : if I am less than 10 Miles at my house please turn on the heating. but everything will be done via an app. It really is a top controller but not for everyone as you said in the first place.

It’s definitely for nerds and people who like the advanced stuff. If you knew all of this above sorry you had to read this again but I found it very interesting.

Cheers ron

 

[king of pipes]

Dont worry yourself about that bud every days a school day, job i am on is all controlled by nest heating controls . smoke alarm , security cameras be interesting to see it all working . cheers kop