Any idea of how much I could save by installing new boiler?

[cable_guy]

Hi all,

I have a few newbie questions please about boilers.

1) Is there a method for me to see how much i'm likely to save to have a new boiler?
2) I have a "traditional" Ideal Classic, with a hot water tank, and run a power shower off it. If I have a new boiler, a combination, will the power shower not work any more?

thanks.

 

[Simon F]

you could try the baxi saving calculator thingy.

Baxi GA Savings Calculator

if you fit a combi boiler you will not be able to use the power shower ( assuming you mean a pump? )
but you wont need to as a combi will give a good shower performance, provided the incoming mains pressure and flow is good enough and the boiler fitted of sufficient power rating.

 

[plumber0808]

What's wrong with the existing boiler?

 

[vern]

If you fit a Baxi GA, never mind not been able to use the shower, you won't be able to use the boiler either:tongue:

 

[cable_guy]

What's wrong with the existing boiler?

nothing just wondering if i can save some money.

 

[Ian400]

If you want to save money - keep your old boiler. The alleged savings from Combi's are more than offset by the high costs of maintenance and repair. Not to mention the much shorter life expectancy

 

[plumber0808]

Agree, keep your existing boiler. Will take a long time to get your money back.

I have a ideal classic. Big up the classic massive

 

[dancinplumba]

roughly save about a third of your bill, if you have an Intergas boiler fitted they have only 4 moving parts and no standing losses and can come with 5 yr warranty if fitted by me

 

[MRDrip]

Agree, keep your existing boiler. Will take a long time to get your money back.

I have a ideal classic. Big up the classic massive

Ideal Classic NF70 here.

 

[Rob Sale]

classics are cheap and easy to fix

 

[Deleted member 25704]

As posters are indicating, Ideal classic is probably one of the most reliable boilers ever made (natural draught NF).

Even the quality intergas suggested will not reduce your bill by a third, unless it is fitted with weather compensation, which in turn, relies on a well insulated and draught proofed house.

Most modern condensing boilers rely on lower return temperatures to stay in condensing mode, where efficiency is gained from the vapour in flue gas turning to water and giving up latent heat. Weather compensation allows this to happen. Without WC, the boiler drops out of condensing mode after about 30 minutes and produces a similar efficiency to what the classic has already.

Increase your thermal insulation, reduce draughts, and fit a programmable room thermostat. Make sure hot water cylinder has accurate cylinder thermostat fitted and it is set at 60 degrees centigrade.

 

[cable_guy]

I am quite suprised to be receiving positive responses for my boiler from you professionals. I am more than happy to not replace it.

Increase your thermal insulation, reduce draughts, and fit a programmable room thermostat. Make sure hot water cylinder has accurate cylinder thermostat fitted and it is set at 60 degrees centigrade.

thanks for these tips, this sounds interesting. Now I'm not sure I have a thermostat at all. I have a panel in the airing cupboard which I can set On/Off/Twice/Something else for both heating and water, but I can't see a temp guage. The rads all have thermostatic valves on though.

The hot water cylinder thermostat - is the hot water tank the big green thing in the airing cupboard? Or will the hot water tank be in the loft?

 

[Deleted member 32524]

My mum and dad have an ideal concord!! system boiler. old not very efficient but has only needed servicing for the last 20 yrs!! old is best in terms of break down. keep the old one till you canny get parts or part anymore.

 

[Reg Man]

Most combi's are suitable for small homes or flats, depends on how many are people are drawing off hot water at the same time. Their are some high powered combi's, but I would be carefull otherwise you may be dissapointed. The ideal classic is a great boiler for its time, cheap and easy to maintain, but performance wise with regard to economy, may be not that great on present day standards. A good gas safe registered engineer should be able to give you best advice on savings and a possible way forward to save energy. Be aware that cheapest is not always best. Costs of installing a very efficient system to meet your needs could be more than you think, it depends on what you are expecting with performance.

 

[cable_guy]

any idea if a "programmable room thermostat" can be fitted to the Ideal Classic, and how much that may cost? Or is that a "piece of string" question?

 

[Simon F]

any idea if a "programmable room thermostat" can be fitted to the Ideal Classic, and how much that may cost? Or is that a "piece of string" question?

yes, but

from your posts it seems that you have a programmer for heating and water,
you have a cylinder stat but no room stat??
as you have the programmer all you need is a room stat, best place is the lounge, and remove the trv from the lounge radiator.
or possibly upgrade the programmer as well to one that gives you more user control for heating and water.

 

[dancinplumba]

As posters are indicating, Ideal classic is probably one of the most reliable boilers ever made (natural draught NF).

Even the quality intergas suggested will not reduce your bill by a third, unless it is fitted with weather compensation, which in turn, relies on a well insulated and draught proofed house.

Most modern condensing boilers rely on lower return temperatures to stay in condensing mode, where efficiency is gained from the vapour in flue gas turning to water and giving up latent heat. Weather compensation allows this to happen. Without WC, the boiler drops out of condensing mode after about 30 minutes and produces a similar efficiency to what the classic has already.

Increase your thermal insulation, reduce draughts, and fit a programmable room thermostat. Make sure hot water cylinder has accurate cylinder thermostat fitted and it is set at 60 degrees centigrade.

if the OPs boiler has a pilot light, there will be instant saving of £50 a yr approx. if the OPs house has DG and loft insulation, rads more than likely oversized so boiler flow temp will be lower and condense longer, more saving. Rather than fit weather compensation, fit modulating room stat, more saving
OP is heating tank of water, which loses heat, Intergas Condense on DHW, more savings and Intergas have very low or no standing losses hence more savings

 

[cable_guy]

yes, but

from your posts it seems that you have a programmer for heating and water,
you have a cylinder stat but no room stat??
as you have the programmer all you need is a room stat, best place is the lounge, and remove the trv from the lounge radiator.
or possibly upgrade the programmer as well to one that gives you more user control for heating and water.

ooh, I like the sounds of that. I will have to look up some of these more advanced ones. Do they do ones yet which you can control via mobile phone? I just got ahead of myself and googled this, are these any good do you know?

if the OPs boiler has a pilot light, there will be instant saving of £50 a yr approx. if the OPs house has DG and loft insulation, rads more than likely oversized so boiler flow temp will be lower and condense longer, more saving. Rather than fit weather compensation, fit modulating room stat, more saving
OP is heating tank of water, which loses heat, Intergas Condense on DHW, more savings and Intergas have very low or no standing losses hence more savings

Are you really keen on these Intergas boilers then? Have you seen real world cost savings with them, and are they reliable? I have been told my boiler is reliable, so I'm less keen on changing it now....

Can anyone tell me if the hot water tank in my house is indeed the big green tank in my airing cupboard? I thought that was called an immersion heater? I have no idea what it does! :| Any advice gratefully received

 

[dancinplumba]

the big green tank is your hot water cylinder. It usually has an electric immersion heater in it.
check here

Intergas - Smart Choice

 

[johnnyplumb]

yes, but

from your posts it seems that you have a programmer for heating and water,
you have a cylinder stat but no room stat??
as you have the programmer all you need is a room stat, best place is the lounge, and remove the trv from the lounge radiator.
or possibly upgrade the programmer as well to one that gives you more user control for heating and water.

you just need to be careful about fitting a room stat in a lounge, most lounges have other forms of heating, ie a fire,
the hall is usually a better place imo.

 

[dancinplumba]

you just need to be careful about fitting a room stat in a lounge, most lounges have other forms of heating, ie a fire,
the hall is usually a better place imo.

agree, but here its part of Chess best practice, which says where occupant spends most time, ie living, dining or bedroom. not in favour of halls, and like prog stats bets,

 

[Reg Man]

Lots of string. Can be done.

 

[cable_guy]

Lots of string. Can be done.

what? Care to elaborate?

 

[Deleted member 25704]

I think you are getting some good advice here, along with what to do in the future.

Intergas boilers are indeed very good, most Dutch boilers are e.g. ATAG, Broag included.

However, ideal classic is what you have and you can enhance efficiency by having correct control system. There is no conclusive evidence that I have been shown that states that combination boilers for instant hot water is more efficient than a well insulated cylinder with a cylinder thermostat - I would like to see the science to support this.

Make sure you have basic control system in accordance with engergy saving trust guidlines for fully pumped systems. If so, adding a room thermostat or programmable room thermostat is a doddle.

Look at this wireless room thermostat which allows you to position the device where is suits your lifestyle and dwelling characteristics:

Siemens RDH10RF/SET-GB RF Wireless Digital Room Thermostat

A programmable one is slightly more complex in that it allows temperatures to be programmed at the times you want them.

 

[plumber0808]

I would certainly fit a room stat just to give yourself more control over the heating.
Also if your system is fully pumped. Both these will help you be less wasteful.

You have nearly 50 posts on a plumbing forum and don't know if the cylinder in your airing cupboard supplies your hot water LOL