any thoughts on this article about condensing boilers ?

[GQuigley67]

Salamander Condensafe + neutralises acidic waste from condensing boilers news on PlumbingPark.co.uk

would like to know peope's thoughts on this, do you think its just a lie for people to buy their product ?

 

[PuraTherm]

Good marketing. Scare the uneducated (i.e. DIYers) into demanding this be installed. The acidity would be neutralized once it meets the millions of liters of washing up water dumped down the drain. If there was a problem with balancing the biological effects of chemicals being dumped down the drains then bleach would have been out lawed a long time ago. According to the artical the pH level is 4. This is equivilent to tomato juice. Vinegar is 2. Should we out law chip shops?

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

its a load of toss

 

[GQuigley67]

thought so

 

[garrywhite]

Hi interesting thread. Maybe I am missing the point but how I read the article is the quantity. 50 million litres of condensate a week. Per average household 800litres a year/52 weeks = 15 litres a week. How much vinegar, bleach, tomato juice do you reckon gets flushed down a waste per week per household?

 

[PuraTherm]

What I am saying is that the amount of condensate entering the sewage treatment system isn't enought to effect the biological stability of the treatment plants. The pH of soapy water is about 12. There is more soapy water entering the treatment plants than condesate. The two opposing pH's are going to cancel each other out. If anything the pH of the water entering the treatment plant is going to more basic than acid.

 

[fuzzy]

if its inacurrate they shouldnt be allowed ot do it. if it does become a big issue as they say then the goverment will make us fit em, until then i will ignore it

 

[garrywhite]

Ok granted, maybe not effecting sewage treatments plants as they add all sorts to get the balance right for enzymes and bacteria to break down the waste. But what about closer to home? Would it effect brick/mortar sewers or clay pipes?

 

[fuzzy]

its only as acidic as lime juice, lets not get carried away.

why would it affect bricks and mortar? it doesnt touch bricks or mortar, it goes into your waste system which is designed for allsorts! what about bleech and cleaning products? much worse than lime juice

 

[garrywhite]

I am talking about quantity. Do you put 15 litres of lime juice and bleech down your drains every day?

 

[fuzzy]

think of all the commercial building such as schools and hotels, how many cleaning prodtsuc do they use?? i bet the majority dont have condensing boilers, ive worked in lots and rarely seen a condensing boiler
if this is such an issue why havnt the goverment done something about it. the first time i hear it may be an issue is from the pople selling a solution to a problem i didnt know exsited until 15 mins ago

 

[PuraTherm]

No, but an average condensing boiler only produces 200ml to 500ml a day according to industry standards. I think the article is saying that the total produced into the sewage treatment system is 15 liters a day. Urine has an average pH of 2 which is slightly less than codensate. I would imagine that there is more than 15 liters of urine introduced into the sewage treatment facilities everyday.

 

[fuzzy]

I am talking about quantity. Do you put 15 litres of lime juice and bleech down your drains every day?

Just realised youve put 15litres!! Ive had mine running into a bucket for the last two weeks to stop it feezing, im geting 1.5litres a day and the temp is -15c, the heating been on alot through that

 

[GQuigley67]

I'm quoting this from www.condensingboiler.org.uk


"Tests have been conducted on materials from which domestic drains are constructed and the following conclusions reached. Drains made of plastic material and clayware showed insignificant damage while cast iron is likely to be affected in the long term and gives rise to staining. Cement and concrete products appeared to be affected more seriously
than other materials. This could lead to problems in older properties having salt-glazed drain pipes with cement joints. In practice, however, the adverse effects due to condensation are unlikely to be serious as it will be appreciated that it will be
diluted very quickly by the discharges from sanitary appliances"

if there is such a large quantity from all of the condensing boilers going into the sewers, they won't all be discharging into the same pipe at the same time so it must be heavily diluted.

 

[stevetheplumber]

during my recent training for bg we were told these are noi longer allowed for neutralising before going into cast iron drains /soils which was what they were originally marketed for

 

[garrywhite]

My most humble apologies to everyone concerned. I screwed up with my quantity calcs. I got it wrong.

 

[PuraTherm]

You are a good man in my book garrywhite. Anyone that knows when they are wrong and can stand up to that is smart as well as honest.

 

[oldplumber]

Had a condensate pipe joint leak going into an external wall, the plaster was destroyed over 6 months until i noticed and sealed the leak. I also have 2 combis running into a victorian drain and over 2 years the clay pipe cement joints have now been destroyed, allowing the drains to leak into the surrounding soil. I know this as prior to installing the boilers, i tested the drains to ensure they didnt leak as I wanted to check they were secure and sound before conveting the property into flats. The manhole the condensate runs through has now become a rough surface, where before it was smoooth as it should be.

So guys, despite what you may bellieve, if the flats are used intermittently by owners, and the heating is left on, cement joints etc will be damaged, I have the proof at this property so any means of reducing the damage needs to be looked at as some properties will suffer damage in the long term.

 

[PuraTherm]

Did those drains accept anything other than the condensate and rain water?

 

[GQuigley67]

Had a condensate pipe joint leak going into an external wall, the plaster was destroyed over 6 months until i noticed and sealed the leak. I also have 2 combis running into a victorian drain and over 2 years the clay pipe cement joints have now been destroyed, allowing the drains to leak into the surrounding soil. I know this as prior to installing the boilers, i tested the drains to ensure they didnt leak as I wanted to check they were secure and sound before conveting the property into flats. The manhole the condensate runs through has now become a rough surface, where before it was smoooth as it should be.

So guys, despite what you may bellieve, if the flats are used intermittently by owners, and the heating is left on, cement joints etc will be damaged, I have the proof at this property so any means of reducing the damage needs to be looked at as some properties will suffer damage in the long term.

interesting.....would like to know the same as puratherm tho.

 

[washer]

Doesnt suprise me at all that not much research has been done on the potential damage condensate could cause.

It seems no manufacturers thought much about condensate pipes freezing.

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

load of rubbish very hard to fit these and the insert wow how hard to replace in-line all the way