Anyone using a WiFi plug as a smart programmer?

[quietman]

Hi, I'd like to replace my Baxi 105e built in programmer with a smart option. I do not need a room stat as my trv's manage the temperature. I use WiFi plugs around the house that have all the characteristics of a programmer, on/off multiple time/day setting, manual on/off options even outside temp options for on/off switching. Has anyone removed their programmer and use a WiFi plug as a replacement (in addition to the main boiler power supply) or can anyone recommend a WiFi programmer without thermostat? Ideally I would also like a solution with Alexa control compatibility. Thanks for your help/suggestions.

 

[Chalked]

They don’t last long. Have tried 4 at my house to control a few things and have lasted just over a year

 

[quietman]

I haven't had any issues with mine. Even if I had to swap one out every year it's a cheap part for given the flexibility of use. Is there a WiFi programmer, without thermostat, out there that I'm not aware of?

 

[dancinplumba]

no thermosat ? what will be the interlock ?

 

[quietman]

Sorry, I meant room stat. My rads have trv's. I only need the the programming element, on/off, day, time period advance.

 

[dancinplumba]

Sorry, I meant room stat. My rads have trv's. I only need the the programming element, on/off, day, time period advance.

where is or what is the interlock ??

 

[quietman]

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. A 3 pin plug wired into the combi, plugged into a WiFi plug could supply all the same commands my current programmer does. I have no room stat as all the rads have trv's. The WiFi input would only supply the timed requests to the combi.

 

[Gasmk1]

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. A 3 pin plug wired into the combi, plugged into a WiFi plug could supply all the same commands my current programmer does. I have no room stat as all the rads have trv's. The WiFi input would only supply the timed requests to the combi.

but in the off commands there would be no power too boiler so there would be no hot water

 

[Rob Foster]

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. A 3 pin plug wired into the combi, plugged into a WiFi plug could supply all the same commands my current programmer does. I have no room stat as all the rads have trv's. The WiFi input would only supply the timed requests to the combi.

Do you want a job helping us design a domestic bms we are most of the way there but there is always room at API Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Riley]

Also boiler should be hard wired and TRVs don’t control the boiler

 

[Riley]

Hive works with Alexa

 

[AWheating]

You need a room stat for boiler interlock and keep your bills down.

 

[Riley]

Hmm he doesn’t like the answer

 

[dancinplumba]

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. A 3 pin plug wired into the combi, plugged into a WiFi plug could supply all the same commands my current programmer does. I have no room stat as all the rads have trv's. The WiFi input would only supply the timed requests to the combi.

what happens when all your TRVS are satisfied/closed ? boiler keeps running and burning fuel until you tell it to stop, not very efficient is it ??

 

[MOSSEP]

Heatmiser do a wifi time clock, its suggested for hot water control. I use one to control a secondary hot water pump, works great. Only problem is its limited to 5 or 7 on off times per day, cant remember exactly how many

 

[MOSSEP]

I think its called a neostat HW

 

[quietman]

On the contrary (AWheating) I appreciate all the advice but have been away from my tablet. I should explain that my plumbing and heating days ended 30 yrs ago when I left the trade but I've tried to stay abreast of how things have changed. My concern with the Hive controller and room stat in conjunction with trv's is a situation where all trv's are closed and the room stat is still calling for heat causing the combi to short cycle. I guess that as my hall rad never shuts it's trv I could site the Hive unit in the hall and set the Hive stat such that the other rooms reach temp. Whilst the hall trv never shuts, the combi still shuts down for periods as the hall rad loses heat more slowly than the combi creates it. Does my reasoning make sense to you guys?

 

[Chuck]

I should explain that my plumbing and heating days ended 30 yrs ago when I left the trade but I've tried to stay abreast of how things have changed.

One thing that hasn't changed since you left the trade is that over-elaborate DIY control systems are still a bad idea. Keep it simple and keep it standard.

If you want to use your dormant skills to minimise short-cycling then do it by balancing your system really carefully so the TRVs are essentially redundant.

 

[Riley]

On the contrary (AWheating) I appreciate all the advice but have been away from my tablet. I should explain that my plumbing and heating days ended 30 yrs ago when I left the trade but I've tried to stay abreast of how things have changed. My concern with the Hive controller and room stat in conjunction with trv's is a situation where all trv's are closed and the room stat is still calling for heat causing the combi to short cycle. I guess that as my hall rad never shuts it's trv I could site the Hive unit in the hall and set the Hive stat such that the other rooms reach temp. Whilst the hall trv never shuts, the combi still shuts down for periods as the hall rad loses heat more slowly than the combi creates it. Does my reasoning make sense to you guys?

The short and simple is that your idea doesn’t work as you will have no hot water when the boiler is off

 

[Anthony7193]

I am not a plumber and am myself looking for help but I work in IT so hopefully I may be able to help with your question.

I personally have Honeywell Evohome, primarily because the temp throughout the house varies so much and the manual TRV's were the poor quality ones so either buy new heads for say £25 or the smart ones for £50, no idea why, my inner geek probably went for evohome.

However unless you want multiroom it is overkill and certainly not cheap, for the controller and two relays (heating/ hot water) it is around £250.

IMO Hive is one of the better options for easy retrofit as it uses the standard base plate and still gives you the manual control but also the app/ IFTTT/ Alexa integration, I installed one in my parents house, other than removing the wiring for the old stat it was a 15 minute job.

Important thing and hopefully this does not come across as condescending but it is the programmer/ timer that sends the signal to the boiler to turn on/off, with Hive that is replaced by a single unit (programmer + stat in one) with a wireless relay in the place of the programmer.

You would not be able to remove that element unless you done some strange wiring and it would never be worth it, a hive on offer can be had for about £130, black friday is coming soon that is a good time if nothing appears before.

As I say I am not a plumber nor an electrician but having a number of issues with my evohome I have learnt a bit about the wiring for my normal (non/combi) boiler and associated pump and valve and happy to help with any questions.

 

[Riley]

I think you’ll find thermostats override programmers

 

[Anthony7193]

I think you’ll find thermostats override programmers

As I said I am not a plumber/ electrician and I doubt the OP actually cares about the specifics, I can say that the end result with the one interface system like Hive is that you get the control over the App or local and as a general rule can be installed by an end user (except presumably the old stat wiring removal if it is in certain zones). My understanding and it may be wrong but the stat makes the call and then when it is up to temp the voltage is removed rather than sending a specific signal, I think H/W stats are different in that they always send some form of voltage, it has been a year or so since I last looked at it though so happy to be told I have got that wrong.