Are you on a "fast track?"

[Chris W]

Hello there

I am a plumbing tutor and NVQ assessor in an FE college. I would be interested to hear from you in this thread if you are on a so called "fast track" or similar qualification. In particular I would like to know:

What organisation are you currently studying with

What exact qualification you will be getting at the end of the course and who the awarding body is. (eg City and Guilds 6129)

Cost (if that isnt being too nosey)

How long the course lasts, is it practical, theory or a mix of both.

Are you satisfied with the course and do you feel it will equip you to go out and find work

Why you chose a commercial company over a traditional college

Do you feel like you are really learning a skill or just learning how to pass an exam and jump through the hoops

I would also ask that if you happen to be a student of mine, please dont post who I am or which college I am from as they take a dim view of the college being discussed in public without their consent Thanks in advance!

 

[voice of reason]

Hello Chris,

I'm on a fast track course qualifications I get are (providing I pass) C & G 6089, 6029, Part P, B Pec level 3 Unvented Hot Water, Water Regs and energy efficiency.

I paid approx £5600 plus VAT. The company is VIY in leeds and lasts for 10 weeks, accommodation is included on the course plus tools and material. I looked into many other courses but VIY not only offered the qualifications but the company director was enthusiastic and I felt his course was the best on the market (and still do).

I don't feel as though I have to jump through hoops but I feel that the content of C & G is sometimes pathetic. For example putting up a ladder, the youngest person on our course is 21 and the oldest 50, we all know how to put up a ladder. More often than not our instructors deviate from the book and end up asking a lot of questions about issues that have been raised.

We do approx 50% class work and 50% practical in well equipped workshops and generally there are 4 instructors to 23 of us! which I think is excellent. Any question is dealt with promptly and solutions are given in many different ways.

Do I feel equipped to do the job? Yes, we are given a helpline number so help is a phone call away. My knowledge of plumbing is obviously not extensive and we do have our limitations but I can approach jobs knowing that I have excellent back up and that there are many solutions to the problem.

Why not a local college? I would have to pay because of my age, the course would take far too long, there is no financial help, they are not as well equipped, I was told by one college that I would have to have an apprenticeship. £40-50 a week, PLEASE!

People who have to pay tend to want to learn.

Hope this helps.

Sorry, finger error its obviously the 6129 not the 6089

 

[kingm1988]

Hello mate.

Im doing the City & Guilds 6129 with OLCI in London. Course fees i believe are £5400. Which includes the provision of an NVQ assessor when your on a job placement (i think).

There are 27 days in total of practical work. Theory is done at home, and you are assigned to a personal tutor whom you have at your beck and call.

The duration of the course is up to you. Anything from 6 months to 2 years. I plan to do it in less than a year.

My reasons for choosing this route as opposed to college is that I'm 21 and just came out of two years at uni, and I really don't fancy going into college again for another 3 years or so. This sounds horrendously snobbish, and i apologise if it is. I really want to get everything done in about a year, so college i feel would take too long too.

I haven't yet been in for a practical or done a theory test so i'm not able to provide you with my thoughts of how great/crap everything is. I can only hope i feel fully equipped and ready to go out there once everything is done.

Chris, as a tutor, assessor, and a plumber (i hope ;-)), what do make of these providers?

 

[Chris W]

I suppose I have to be careful what I say here as it would be easy to appear biased. My opinion is that they can be useful for some people with an aptitude for the job and some experience but I really dont think its the best way for someone looking to change career from scratch. Everyone seems to be looking for a quick fix but there is no substitute for time spent with an experienced installer and putting what you learn in class and the workshop into practice as you progress.

Most employers I deal with wouldnt touch a fast track qualified guy with a barge pole which is one of the reasons most end up trying self employment (although they would consider one as a trainee).
I honestly think that taking your time doing your quals while building experience on site with a good installer is priceless. If it means working for free and taking a bit longer to get qualified then so be it- in the long term its worth it.
With regards to cost, colleges offer the 6129 for free on a full time basis (usually 3 days per week) and usually lasts one academic year (sept-july so about ten months). The college I am at currently delivers the 6129 over two years but you do another C+G qual and various other extra activities.

As a day release student it takes two years to gain the 6129 but you are gaining invaluable site experience those other four days and the 6089 NVQ2 runs alongside it. The cost for this is about £650 per year, but if you sign up to the mod app agreement the government pay so it is free to you.

For people changing careers I would advise doing the 6129 on a nightclass (6 hours per week over two evenings) and try to get work experience on your days off work etc. The cost for this is about £800 over two years and partial funding is quite often available.

Sadly, everybody wants to seem to get through the qual in double quick time and there is no shortage of commercial trainers offering that for a price!

Having said all that, like I mentioned earlier- they can seem ideal for some people who are confident in their knowledge and skills and just need the bit of paper quick, but in general I think they are taking advantage of people.
I think its wrong to get someone through the 6129 in ten weeks then blag the 6089 with some work experience because if that person does actually find a job, then the chances are they wont be able to perform to a level expected of a properley trained level two guy. Ultimately, this de-values the qual and makes thing worse for everyone.

The sad truth is that we get loads of people coming to us having spent a small fortune on a course for a qual that is worthless, so if you do go to a commercial trainer (who are there to make a profit dont forget) then make sure its a recognised qual.

@ voice of reason- Thanks for posting

I had a look at VIY website, I notice they say "finish your on site NVQ at VIY's own work site"- Unless they are actually building or refurbishing property then its counted as simulation work which is not really acceptable for the NVQ. Any idea what they are offering there? Cheers

@kingm

hope it goes well for you

 

[newbie1]

the fast track courses are really for more mature students/career changers and while good at covering the basics there really is no substitute for hands on work as theory differs greatly from real life and you will never have the experience an employer will require after 10 weeks and the best you can look forward to is the self employed route and that isnt easy
i would advise any body able to go the college route and find a plumber to learn from
the fast track places are conning people with talk of 30000 a year its going to be a lot tougher out there with just ur 6129 to offer

 

[voice of reason]

Hello again Chris,

We all had a talk on Friday about what was req'd for a level 2 NVQ assessment. We are under no illusion that we can leave the course on Friday and be assessed on Monday, we have all be quite clearly told to get experience and then ask for an assessment.

We have been told that there will be 2 assessments on site, at different locations and that if we were not up to scratch the assessment would be stopped. We were also told that if the assessment were stopped we would (obviously) still have to pay.

It was made clear that we would need to get experience.

I have read your reply regarding government schemes, when I spoke to learning direct etc they were not that helpful and to be honest neither were the colleges. I can't tell you the amount of times that I have approached the government for assistance and each time the answer was, sorry you don't qualify.

Full time college? I respect your point of view regarding some fast track courses and also the individuals confidence but the vast majority of my course are older, have mortgages, loans or young families. Full time college is not practical for us and neither is an apprenticeship paying peanuts.

Also, I think that I could put an add in the paper with no qualifications and advertise as a plumber, how would I know, if working for a plumber whether he/she was either good or bad!

I agree with your point about apptitude and experience, there is a pipe fitter on our course and his work is amazing and fast. This was the fastest route for him.

My last point and in no way wanting to incite an argument is, the reason private schools exist, in all trade skills, plumbing, electrical, plastering etc. Is too fold the first is there is a market but (IN my case and the vast majority of cases on my course) the courses run by government agencies etc are inadequate. They cater for the majority of school leavers or younger members of society, who have time and no other financial commitments.

I hope this reply aids with your research

 

[kingm1988]

Cheers for the response chris. What do you reckon the chances are of being taken on as a plumbers mate, being paid little or even nothing, after you've done most of the 6129?

For example, say in about 9months time or so, with just maybe one or two assessments to go, would a plumber take me on (im 21 btw, don't know if that makes a difference) just for the experience?

Going self employed at 21/22 sounds exciting, but im not sure the customer who opens the door to me would feel overly confident that they've found the right person. Perhaps i'll have to practice at home. Lets see if mum appreciates that one. haha

 

[newbie1]

age is going to be a factor with self employed at 21 customers will be very wary of your experience finding someone to take you on is equally as tough and you might get lucky unpaid but the companies have made out the streets are paved with gold for plumbers but that is far from the reality
the ones doing well have built up a reputation and have contacts that feed them work new starters will struggle and an employer is unlikely to be very patient

 

[Chris W]

@ VOR
With regards to the NVQ site visits, my students get a progress visit every 8 weeks whether its for an assesment or not. Im a bit dubious about you only getting being offered two visits as the four installation assessments alone all require separate visits for an observation. The health and safety sections and prepwork sections also require observation but I often do this at the same time as the installation visits. The decommissioning and maintenance tasks can be done as a "job record" countersigned by a qualified supervisor on site backed up with a set of photos. You will need to provide copies of your supervisors quals with this.
Its a shame you didnt get better advice at your local college. This is the problem with colleges as the front line staff often only have poor basic information to offer and as there is no real financial incentive for tutors to cram people in they are often not very good at returning cals etc! I dont have a problem with fast tracks as such, as long as at the end you have had a worth while training experience, feel you have the basics to get going and havent been ripped off. I can certainly see the advantages for some people doing it this way as opposed to the sometimes archaic and bureaucratic colleges clogged up with government regulations and guidelines!

@ king
I would say the 6129 is the best springboard to changing career. I tell my nightclass students who are mostly older guys looking to get into the trade, that going to an emplyer as semi skilled with a basic qual is useful as it means they wont be losing you one day per week for a start. Also as a slightly more mature guy they will see you as a more reliable and keen than a 16 year old.

What I actually tell my nightclass is to start doing little jobs for yourself as soon as you feel capable or doing little bits with a plumber as time allows and when you feel ready to make the job change then go for it and start the NVQ, unfortunately it usually means a pay cut down to minimum wage (£5-6/hour) for a while.
This way you are developing your skills and confidence at at a sensible rate

Just my two pence but hope it helps

 

[voice of reason]

Hello again Chris,

I agree with everything that you have stated, it was explained to us about photo's, health and safety etc but it was all a bit long winded to post. On a personal note, it certainly was not easy to part with so much money (as you can appreciate). Myself and the vast majority of people on my course have done extensive research on private companies and I am very happy with the course, qualifications and instructors. Having read other sites regarding other private companies this is not always the case.

 

[Chris W]

@VOR
Just to pick up on a good point you made- "Full time college is not practical for us and neither is an apprenticeship paying peanuts."
You dont have to be on a full time course or apprenticeship to do the 6129. Another option which could work out cheaper for some people is to do the 6129 tech cert only (not the the NVQ as you would still be doing your normal day job) on either a nightclass or possibly even day release if your job means your day off is during the week. Cost for the tech cert without NVQ is about £400/annum. Even if it meant giving up a days pay during term time, the cost in lost wages and the cost of the course could be less than commercial trainers which seem to average around the £5k mark.
Some colleges may not offer the day release tech cert to paying students as it makes more financial sense for them to save day release places for modern apprenticship funded students. Obviously the downside is that the qual will take two years at day release pace which doesnt suit everyone.

 

[Darkfunnyguy]

Chris I do not see problem as long as they are working a plumber mate while they go on the fast track course as then I am learning the trick of the trade from the plumbers as opposed to 2 years part time at college and also part time is about 10-12 weeks in college overs two years. I do think there are hardly any apprenticeships the reasoning why there there been a shortage of time served plumbers.

 

[LM Ceramics]

Cheers for the response chris. What do you reckon the chances are of being taken on as a plumbers mate, being paid little or even nothing, after you've done most of the 6129?

For example, say in about 9months time or so, with just maybe one or two assessments to go, would a plumber take me on (im 21 btw, don't know if that makes a difference) just for the experience?

Going self employed at 21/22 sounds exciting, but im not sure the customer who opens the door to me would feel overly confident that they've found the right person. Perhaps i'll have to practice at home. Lets see if mum appreciates that one. haha

Im a self employed tiler who offers plastering and full bathroom installation and im 20 to be fair yes i get a few funny looks when i turn up at the door and some just dont want to know. But experienced or older doesnt mean they are better to be honest since i set up in jan 08 ive had a fairl decent work load all 2008 and was constantly booked up now im struggling a little bit due to the credit crunch kickin in but im still 3 weeks work infront.

If your going to go self employed you need to put alot of hard work in and be prepared to work harder than the rest because of your age im busy because i give customers confidence in my ability i know what im talking about (and im sometimes competing with 3 other guys) but i secure most of my quotes

 

[kingm1988]

Im a self employed tiler who offers plastering and full bathroom installation and im 20 to be fair yes i get a few funny looks when i turn up at the door and some just dont want to know. But experienced or older doesnt mean they are better to be honest since i set up in jan 08 ive had a fairl decent work load all 2008 and was constantly booked up now im struggling a little bit due to the credit crunch kickin in but im still 3 weeks work infront.

If your going to go self employed you need to put alot of hard work in and be prepared to work harder than the rest because of your age im busy because i give customers confidence in my ability i know what im talking about (and im sometimes competing with 3 other guys) but i secure most of my quotes

Nice one. That sounds quite reassuring actually so cheers for that. Did you train to be a plumber via the college/apprentice route?