Asbestoses

[Bernie2]

Hi All,

You've probably heard about asbestos and the harm it can do you?

Its dangerous stuff and there is still, about a million or more ton of the stuff still out there.

There is also still no lower limit, of the amount of exposure to asbestos that below it is known not to be dangerous.

In other words nobody knows if your exposed to asbestos for say even 5 seconds what it may do to you.

I was diagnosed with mild asbestoses this year.

Don't forget some old boilers had asbestos in the combustion chambers.

However its said that it is not dangerous unless disturbed or its worn and flaking. Unfortunately those are the areas Plumbers often go in.

So watch yourselves

 

[stevetheplumber]

sorry to hear about your health problems i think most of us over 45 have been exsposed to the stuff its just the luck of the draw if your infected
we used to knock it of pipes in boiler rooms and mix it in an open tub room would be like a snow storm the real pig is those supplying the stuff knew about the dangers years ago

 

[Bernie2]

Thanks Steve

Yes the first claims where made in the 1890's.

The thing is, I think the young guys think its all over and done with now.

They don't realise how much asbestos is still out there and just as much a danger to them today as it was for us if they get exposed to it.

 

[migoplumber]

i did the asbestos course about a year ago. really frightening. they showed us bits and pieces in a sealed bag and then explained where they come from.
anything over 15 years old (officially), is possible to contain asbestos. cast iron boiler joints, bolted manifolds on steel pipes, most lagging, vent shafts..... everywhere
im lucky to go to sites that have been mostly labelled up as asbestos containing or not with test stickers all over the show
if i am in any doubt, i close the door and walk away, as a smoker and working with the stuff ime 246 times as likely to die from related diseases as a non smoker working without asbestos.
i work for a firm so its my right to do so, in todays market if your young and new into the business, you doing that may cost you your job but your health will be fine and you can get recompensated later if you do get sacked by ruthless bosses

good luck, be safe.
shaun

 

[alph250]

i think most of us over 45 have been exsposed to the stuff its just the luck of the draw if your infected
we used to knock it of pipes in boiler rooms and mix it in an open tub room would be like a snow storm the real pig is those supplying the stuff knew about the dangers years ago

Unfortunately this is one of the two attitudes we have;

Category A - The young and keen who get it drilled into them that asbestos kills, they dont pay any attention and its not until they are a bit maturer that they take the next Category of thought;

Category B - Tradesmen like yourself who thinks - I've probably worked with it in the past (as a cat A) so if i do come into contact with it, Oh well!

And thats what were up against!

Asbestos prohibition law came into effect in 1986 banning Blue and brown asbestos (Crocidolite & Amosite) which are the most dangerous of the three main types.

BUT Chrysotile or white asbestos as its known, was used up until it was banned in 1999! this stuff is'nt as dangerous, infact i beleive its un-licensed work in the USA but you dont take your chances! Prior to undertaking a major refurbishment of a Gymnasium we found we had a full type 3 survey done and found that the main swimming pool pump set had asbestos gaskets even though they werwe only fitted 2-3 months prior which goes to show there are items still in the back of some stores rooms which contain asbestos!

My advice to all trades people is to go on an awareness course and get a half face mask with a type P3 filter from somewhere like arco have it fit tested. Belts and braces you should stop work immediately if you suspect asebestos and prior to drilling through any wall that you may think there asbestos in have it checked.

Not that i condone it, but I know with the self employed trades man its unrealistic to call out a surveying company so as a minimum wear a mask and make sure you have had a shave within 24 hours otherwise you wont get a good seal on the mask and shadow vacum whilst drilling.

The HSE wensite has alot of answers to questions so check that out!

 

[Bernie2]

Yes! And don't forget your wife may shake your overalls after you have been working with the stuff before she washes them!

She can get it too.

Use a disposable overall they are only cheap and throw it in a sealed container before you leave the job if you suspect its got asbestos on it.

Then get the container properly disposed of.

I know in theory that employers should pick up on the possibilities of asbestos being on a job. Problem is, some employers may not know enough about Plumbing products that contain asbestos or where its likely to be met with to identify the risk and warn their people to take appropriate actions.

So go careful lads.

 

[alph250]

If your making that much dust that you require overalls you shouldnt be doing that work.

I was refering to screwing a bracket or something not removing the stuff or working with it to the point that you require overalls thats just stupid!

And remember if your working commercially the client is legally obliged to provide you with a survey listing/identifiying all known areas which are known/suspected to contain asbestos, if in doubt, stop work and get a proffesional in not matter who you work for!

 

[Deleted member 2053]

White asbestos has been proven to be harmless despite the H&SE hype. There is however the danger that tradesmen might not really be able to tell the difference between the various types so I suppose a blanket ban is the best solution.

 

[Dannypipe]

How many people can tell the difference between Astbestalux, and Asbestos? I know I can't. How many decorators know that Artex on the ceiling has Asbestos in it? Probably not many!

It's a horrible fact that the authoritys knew the dangers hundreds of years ago. When it was mined in Roman times, people got a illness of the lungs. So there's no excuse. The really horrible facts are that third world countries like India are still using it, and that in the UK we'll have many, many future generations killed by it. I'm only 30 and I know the dangers.

 

[Deleted member 2053]

Bit of trivia. In the film King Solomon's Mines (Richard Chamberlain/Sharon Stone) the entire town that they walk into at the beginning of the film was constructed out of asbestos about 15km outside of Harare.

Actually there was a lot of stuff made from amphibole type and I gather from some sources that this was the favourite for asbestos lagging. I also gather that the type of asbestos bonded with cement to make sheets and pipes depended on the country of manufacture. What we could do with is somebody that could be called out to give advice on whether or not the stuff we find is safe to handle. At present the only option I know of is to call in the heavies.

 

[alph250]

White asbestos has been proven to be harmless

Dont be so naive, it is dangerous, i wouldnt like to breath any of that in, and further more if it has been proven to be harmless then please do share your source of information...... or did you just make that up?

Blue and Brown asbestos strands are straight (under a microscope) and can dig in very easily into your lungs. White asbestos strands are a kind of 'S' shape which makes it a little bit more difficult for these strands to dig into your lung lining.

Thats the FACT, If either of the types of asbestos strands lodge themselves in your lungs, and were only talking about one strand here, it can and will cause mesothelioma and pleural disease's.


Asbestalux or Supalux as i know it is different in its unpainted form as supalux panels have a shimmer on them when a light is put on them, asbestos doesnt, also if you look at the edges if you see strands then that is more than likely asbestos.

In either case, if your unsure, stop work and get the item sampled. Not only are you putting yourself at risk but also the people around you, and if you contaminate the place, you may aswell treat all items contaminated as asbestos waste (unless its like a bath tub where a damp rag could be used), cleaning it is like ****ing in the wind especially fabrics

 

[Puddle]

Over 2100 people a year are still diagnosed with mesothelioma/cancer of the lining of the lung walls caused by asbestos in the Uk
Do'nt forget asbestos was used well into the 1980's and still plenty about
I am not a health and safety nut and have the scars to prove it,but please give this stuff the respect it deserves as it will show you none
Bernie2 .....all the best

 

[Deleted member 2053]

Dont be so naive, it is dangerous, i wouldnt like to breath any of that in, and further more if it has been proven to be harmless then please do share your source of information...... or did you just make that up?

I don't need to make it up. I know where I obtained that info but I don't have it to hand. I will try and make a post next week when I have found it.

As for your insult as to my naivity - perhaps you should change your logon to omega250. You seem to think that you are the last word on everything. Perhaps you should try being a little less arrogant.

 

[alph250]

I don't need to make it up. I know where I obtained that info but I don't have it to hand. I will try and make a post next week when I have found it.

How conveniant!?lmao

As for your insult as to my naivity

So you admit your naive?

Dont chat rubbish, your claiming that white asbestos is harmless? get your facts right.

 

[Bernie2]

Most people do wear overalls in everyday work. All I was saying is that its better to wear a cheap disposable overall if you suspect there might be asbestos about. Then put it in a sealed container to avoid taking it home with you.

I was not saying by wearing overalls your going to be working in clouds of dust or making clouds of dust on purpose.

Most worn asbestos, especially in the likes of service ducts, is floating in the air and you disturb it by squeezing past the pipes or simply opening the duct and allowing a draft in to blow it about.

Its not a magical substance, its gets all over you like any other dust would. I read even teachers are now making claims against education authorities for allowing them to work in class rooms with asbestos ceiling tiles.

The fact is asbestos has no known safety limit of exposure. No research has been done into how it breaks down under normal wear as far as I know. I do know that experience tells me that asbestos products wear away, so where does the worn asbestos go?

As for the HSE, well it was common knowledge to some that asbestos was dangerous over a century ago, how come they took so long to recognise it, and get it banned?

It has been said it was a strategic material, in other words nothing else was available with the same fire resistant properties, so the government could not ban it. But now there are substitutes, all we got to do is get the government to own up to its responsibilities for leaving it on the market for so long.

Incidentally I never worked on ships where it was everywhere. In the Liverpool docks of the 1950-60's they had snowball fights with the stuff.

We simply did not know it was dangerous until somebody told us. And that is about it.

By the way fibreglass filaments are as dangerous as asbestos, so watch yourselves working in lofts with blown in fibre galss insulations.

 

[Deleted member 2053]

How conveniant!?lmao



So you admit your naive?

Dont chat rubbish, your claiming that white asbestos is harmless? get your facts right.

Not at all. I am simply highlighting your arrogance in believing that your own limited knowledge represents the sum total of all there is to be known. Perhaps if you were a little more widely read then you wouldn't have this problem.

 

[Dannypipe]

I called in the 'heavies' once. I found asbestos pipe lagging on some C/H pipework that I needed to work on. They gave the client two options 1: spray it in PVA, and damp it down before getting the plumber to work on it, or 2: Have it all removed proffessionaly at £3500. No guessing what option the client prefered.

They found some other mug to do the work in the end.

 

[alph250]

Not at all. I am simply highlighting your arrogance in believing that your own limited knowledge represents the sum total of all there is to be known. Perhaps if you were a little more widely read then you wouldn't have this problem.

My own limited knowlege? No, this is a forum, a place where you put your opinions and share knowledge, Not for one instance do i beleive that i know everything. I was merely disagreeing with your statement and this is the prompted response i get? I think you should grow up, stop winging when someone disagrees with your comments and furthermore stop making these profound statements which can't be substantiated.

Asbestos is a serious problem in the UK with the death toll very steadily increasing, the HSE predict that the death toll will peak in 2017 (I think!) and do you know why this is? people like you, asbestos in any form of dust is not safe no matter how much you try to convince yourself!

White asbestos or chrysotile as its known was commonly used in cementious products such as profiled roofs on garages, I wouldnt like to take one down without taking the necesary precautions, would you?

oh and by the way my 'limited knowledge' is a P402 & P405 qualification and 3 years experiance in managing it across a large site. Whats your credentials?