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Viper Gas

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Plumber
Gas Engineer
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Hello guys..how u all doing? :)

21 rads.
3 floors
Ideal Mexico super. with flow and return for heating and flow and return for hot water.

Pumped central heating..gravity hot water..


Any hints..tips on the best way to go about balancing such a large system?
Top floor - 4 rads.
Middle floor 8 rads.
Ground floor 9 rads.
F&E loft
boiler ground floor.


Cheers. Vp
 
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Close middle off do top and ground then middle. With ground have open as little as possible.
 
Means I get to roll this out again!

How To Balance Radiators
Tool List:

Radiator-bleeding key
Lockshield valve adjuster or adjustable spanner
Screwdriver
Digital thermometer or multimeter with thermometer function



1. Make sure all the radiators have been bled. Turn off the central heating and allow the radiators to cool.

2. Familiarise yourself with the valves. The lockshield will usually have a push-on cap or one that is secured with a screw through the top. Remove it.

3. Older models will have a wheelhead valve on the other side — used to turn the radiator on/off.

4. Newer radiators will have a thermostatic valve instead of a wheelhead valve.

5. Open up the valves on all the radiators in the house by turning them anti-clockwise.Wheelhead and thermostatic valves can be turned easily by hand, but the lockshield will need a plastic adjuster to open it up. These come with new lockshield valves. A spanner will also do the job.

6. Turn the central heating back on and note down the order the radiators heat up. Those nearest the boiler normally get hot first. If you’ve got a lot of radiators, get assistance. Turn the heating off and wait while the radiators cool down. You will also need check your DHW Cylinder primaries to ensure that the flow heats up at about the same rate as the heating flow. You should have a throttle valve on the primary return.

7. When the radiators are cool, switch the heating back on and go to the first radiator on your list. Turn the lockshield valve clockwise until it is closed and then open it by a quarter of a turn. Once the radiator has warmed up, take a temperature reading at the pipework leading to one of the valves.

8. Now take a temperature reading at the pipework leading to the other valve and open the lockshield valve gradually until there’s a 12°C difference between now and the reading you took in step 7 (allow a couple of minutes after each adjustment for the temperature to change). The temperature figures indicated in the last step and this one are relevant to the radiator shown – don’t take them as any kind of optimum figure – it’s the 12°C difference in temperature at the valves that counts. Next, check the rest of the radiators in the system following the order in the list. The further you move away from the boiler, you’ll find the lockshield valve will have to be opened more. The last radiator may need to have the lockshield valve fully open to work at full efficiency. Your radiators are now balanced and should work perfectly.

Getting A Temperature

A key part of this job is measuring the temperature difference across each radiator. Specially designed thermometers that strap round the pipes at either end of the radiator are available to buy or hire, but it’s not really necessary to use these. You can get away with a single digital thermometer — it just means that you can’t take simultaneous readings and you’ll have to move from one end of the radiator to the other.

Digital thermometers are available from around £10. Alternatively, some digital multimeters have a temperature sensor function. A digital multimeter with temperature function costs from £25 and can also be used for taking electrical readings and checking continuity in wires, among dozens of other functions.
 
Hey cr0ppie nice reply, thanks

However the problem I have is that not all reads get warm...so I'm stuck at step 5? I have no way of determining which reads get warm first....???
 
has this always been a problem, or slowly developed? has it only happened following some work on the system?

first rule out air or blockages in the system by closing the trv or adjustable valve on the radiators that work.
if the problem rads now work open the other valves again, do the problem rads now fail to heat up again?

the likelihood is that all the valves in the house are just fully open.
start to turn down the lockshields on the ones that are getting the hottest (usually those closest the boiler )
 
Close middle off do top and ground then middle. With ground have open as little as possible.

Ermi,

He could have a zone valve on each floor and have GF on Monday to Wednesday, First floor on Wednesday to Friday and top floor on
Sat and Sunday, balancing problems solved, who needs balancing anyway, all these small pipe diameters , never happened in my day.

If he only got to 5 in Croppie's list, hell he wasn't even half way there.

Weak Pump never heard of that one.
Boiler too small
Pipe too small
House too big

20 rads is a big house, unless they are all small rads


The list is endless.
 
Weak pump = when a pump is not as strong as when new. I am sure most of us on here have had a pump that is spinning but poor circulation new pump installed problem solved (not saying in this case was just a suggestion as we all no it's hard to fix some thing that is not in front of us) .i assume due to the motor wearing out = not spinning as fast which i assume= less circulation. the way I test on a domestic pump is to remove vent screw and if I can stop the motor with my screwdriver I call this a weak pump.possibly not the correct way to test but has seamed to work for me be interested if any one else uses the same method. you can test the pump Ohms to test for weak pump also.
 
Guys
...Thanks all for your excellent comments..I must add.
.I spent two days flushing the system.
Average Rads sizes are 700mm high by 1500mm long.
.it is an existing system dating back over 40 years..

.during the powerflushing I closed all rads ..ignited boiler .. opened one rad in turn and found each one heated up.

I will try setting two and three on the adjustable pump to see if I can get the 7 non warmers to heat up.

So if all things being right what is the best way? Croppies very thorough method or Ermintrudes General approach?
Bearing in mind I have only half a morning to do this..on my own...that is unless anyone is in Hampstead not this Monday..the next.
Thanks again.
 
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F and E loft
CWSC in loft
HE cylinder on third
Boiler on ground
Boiler has a set of flow and return for heating circuit and another set of flow and return for hot water circuit coming out of its heat exchanger.
Pumped heating
gravity hot water
Predominantly 28mm pipe work
 
DirtDog,

You are asking people here how long is a piece of string and this will become a guessing game and you will get nowhere, in fact you will get more confused as more people start guessing, your head will start whizzing.

There are a few fundamentals that you need to get clear and perhaps we need to know:

1) Is this your first involvement with this job
2) Boiler Size and model
3) Pump model Number
4) All the radiator outputs
5) When the gas boiler is running have you clocked the gas meter rate
6) A brief thumbnail sketch of each floor showing the radiators that are not getting warm
7) Are there line valves on each floor
8) As anyone used pipe less than 15mm to connect radiators to the circuit
9) When did this poor circulation problem start
10) Do you know what size of f/r feeds onto each floor or can't you see them
11) Is there 28 mm motorised valve on the heating flow, what stops gravity in the heating in summer
12) Does the heating make up water from the FE tank go into the DHWS F&R in the cylinder cupboard

If we don't get answers to all these question then you are going nowhere, BTW is is possible to balance a system like this on your
own, without any high-tech equipment, 20 radiator on three floors needs a bit more care and you should loose a pound or to up and down the stairs.
 
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