Ball valve replacement

[Carlos_UK]

Hi guys,

I've noticed over the past few days that water is dripping out of the overflow on our toilet, on further inspection, the ball valve is not fully shutting off and keeps dripping, which is what is causing it to overflow.

I have tried adjusting the nut that controls the level of fill, partialy closing the isolator valve to reduce the water pressure as well as taking the valve apart, cleaning and refitting and checking all the washers are in good condition (which they are) but the fault still persists.

I have come to the conclusion that the ball valve needs replacing, which is of the straight, bottom entry variety but I only need to replace the top part rather than the whole thing, and was wondering if the size of the retaining nut is of a standard size so I could go and buy a replacement valve such as this one and screw the top part into the existing nut rather than messing around with draining the whole cistern and fitting to the supply pipe at the bottom?

Many thanks,
Carl.

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=12219&stc=1&d=1365585601

 

[Masood]

No reason why not as long as the new valve is of the same type. Why not just repair it with a new diaphragm? You can buy them in most plumbers' merchants and some DIY sheds.

 

[Guest123]

As Masood says, just replace the diaphragm washer, they only cost a few pence. If in doubt, turn the water off to the cistern, uncouple the big white plastic nut and take the ball arm assembly out and the washer. Take both to a plumbers merchant and they'll give you a suitable washer.

Fitting is a reverse of the above. Make sure that you get the wee lugs into the slots before tightening the nut.

 

[SimonG]

Try the diaphragm first as said, then if no luck then go for a new inlet valve. Careful not to overtighten anything, it snaps pretty easy.

 

[Carlos_UK]

Ok thanks guys, I'll try this first! My original logic was that the whole new assembly is not that much more than the diaphragm to buy, but thinking about it, it'll be quicker and easier just to do the diaphragm!

 

[SimonG]

Ok thanks guys, I'll try this first! My original logic was that the whole new assembly is not that much more than the diaphragm to buy, but thinking about it, it'll be quicker and easier just to do the diaphragm!

You need to find somewhere else to buy your diaphragms from then, or don't buy cheap inlet valves. Buy cheap, buy twice.

 

[Carlos_UK]

You need to find somewhere else to buy your diaphragms from then, or don't buy cheap inlet valves. Buy cheap, buy twice.

Everywhere I've looked, they're £2.99 for a pack of 2, that's why I was looking at the complete jobby from screwfix which is £4.49.

 

[SimonG]

If you where going to change the full unit then go for the fluidmaster with brass connection. £14.99 but money well spent.

 

[Carlos_UK]

Ok, an update, I found a local independent plumbers merchant and got the new diaphragm for 20p, unfortunately its still letting a trickle/drips of water through, it appears that the pin shaped bit that pushes against the diaphragm is not long enough as its not pushing enough to fully shut off

 

[Masood]

Ok, an update, I found a local independent plumbers merchant and got the new diaphragm for 20p, unfortunately its still letting a trickle/drips of water through, it appears that the pin shaped bit that pushes against the diaphragm is not long enough as its not pushing enough to fully shut off

That's a shame, but well done for trying. Maybe try a different diaphragm, they differ by manufacturer.

 

[gassafe]

It ain't worth messing around with that! Get a new valve in there already!

 

[Carlos_UK]

It ain't worth messing around with that! Get a new valve in there already!

Ok, so an update, I went for the replacement valve that I posted originally on the off chance the top part would fit my existing pipe, unfortunately it didn't so ended up replacing the whole thing, and all is well now, thanks as always everyone for all your great help and advice!

 

[WHPES]

BTW what you have pictured isn't a ball valve but a WC fill valve or float valve. A ball valve is something different altogether!

 

[Carlos_UK]

BTW what you have pictured isn't a ball valve but a WC fill valve or float valve. A ball valve is something different altogether!

Well maybe you should also correct Screwfix as the part I replaced it with was described by them as a ball valve

 

[moogwai]

The claws are out ^^^^^^

 

[WHPES]

If you go into a proper plumbers merchant and ask for a ball valve, they'll give you one of these

 

[Carlos_UK]

Hi WHPES,

I was aware that this was called a ball valve, which to be honest I did find strange when looking through various different companies websites as the "float valve" that I was looking for came up in the search results as well and they are quite clearly 2 different things, so maybe most companies take into account that a lot of non-plumbers such as myself refer to a float valve as a ball valve (although not any more!) as I have heard it described as this many times!

Carlos.

 

[Howsie]

Never heard it called a ball valve in all my years. Heard it called a 'drip drip' but that could have been aimed at me.

 

[leethegasman]

Lots of parts are called by the wrong name and I know I am guilty if it sometimes it can be a regional thing and sometimes what has been passed on to us,or changed because words sound offensive. but its all Aboat learning and all of us do every day it also can be called a float operated valve.i may be wrong but before that they where referred as ballcocks and changed the name to float operated valves.i just no where they are on my van and install them.

 

[Masood]

i may be wrong but before that they where referred as ballcocks.

That's what I knew them as for years and years. I remember sniggering a lot when I first heard the word. I was quite young at the time!

 

[Carlos_UK]

To be fair, my Dad always used to refer to them as ballcocks or sometimes as a bloody ballcock when he used to get up in the morning and there was no hot water and had to climb into the loft and fiddle with the one on the header tank that used to get stuck!

A while ago, someone told me they were now referred to as ball valves as its a less controversial name, which to be fair to the layman does seem logical as its a valve with a ball attached to it!

 

[Howsie]

Just off to feed my pet cock.

 

[nicro3]

The oldest of the traditional types of ball- valves is the Croydon pattern. You can easily recognise one of these by the position of its piston, which operates vertically, and by the fact that it delivers water to the cistern in two insufferably noisy streams.
Due to their noisiness, Croydon valves are now by and large obsolete, and if you do come across one you will almost certainly want to replace it. The traditional type of valve that superseded the Croydon pattern was the Portsmouth valve (see illustration). You can distinguish it from the former type by the fact that its piston operates horizontally; and as it is still popular with plumbers despite the development of more sophisticated diaphragm type valves, it is a pattern that you may well find in your home.
When one of your ball-valves goes wrong the first thing you will notice is water dripping from an outside overflow pipe. If the valve is a Portsmouth pattern then it is likely to have developed one of three faults. First, it could have jammed partially open as a result of the build-up of scale or the presence of grit; or. secondly, it could need re-washering.
In either of these cases this will necessitate you turning off the water supply so that you can either clean the ball-valve or fit a new washer to it (see step-by-step photographs). Lastly, the valve could have been incorrectly adjusted to maintain the proper water level in the cistern .- which should be about 25mm (1 in) below the overflow pipe. Even modern Portsmouth valves are rarely provided with any specific means of adjusting the water level, so if you need to do so you will have to resort to bending the float arm.
Noise can be a problem with Portsmouth valves. It is caused either by the inrush of water through the valve nozzle, or by vibration created by the float bouncing on ripples on the surface of the water (`water hammer’).
As silencer tubes are now banned by water authorities, you will have to try.other methods to deal with this problem. Reducing the mains pressure by closing the rising main stop- valve slightly may help. and as vibration can be magnified by a loose rising main it is worth making sure that this pipe is properly secured with pipe clips. Another measure you could take would oe to improvise a stabiliser for the float using a submerged plastic flowerpot tied to the float arm with nylon cord. However, if all the above measures fail you will have to consider replacing the Portsmouth valve with one.