Becoming gas safe for cookers.

[Dundeeplumber]

Hi,

Just looking for advice from anyone who may be able to help..time served plumber bit have never done my gas,done ccn1 as part of my apprenticeship but everyone had to do it. All I am looking to do is alter gas pipe & connect hobs.I do alot of kitchens for joiners & it's a pain having to get a gas engineer along everytime theres a new gas hob.

Is it possible?

Do I need to show I'm gaining gas experience at same time as getting the qualification?

Theres a place beside me who have started doing courses but always wary about they type if things.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Riley]

What’s the place beside you offering??? Guaranteed portfolio? Work placement at the end?? If so I’d steer clear. Best thing is to give them a call and discuss. As you have done your ccn1 then there may be routes round having to do the whole portfolio of evidence. It’s always more difficult when someone has done something already that may have lapsed. Alternatively I am assuming you did a college course alongside your apprenticeship?? Maybe give them a bell and see what they can recommend.

 

[Scott_D]

It’s not just altering the gas pipe and fitting the hob though.
If you interrupt the gas the supply you need to purge and relight all appliances and carry out checks.

 

[Riley]

But it’s not to say it’s not do-able. I’d be asking the local college to see if it’s financially viable.

 

[Dundeeplumber]

Thanks for the input guys I'll give them a call & see what they offer regarding courses etc..
Cheers

 

[CHRISX]

Hi,

Just looking for advice from anyone who may be able to help..time served plumber bit have never done my gas,done ccn1 as part of my apprenticeship but everyone had to do it. All I am looking to do is alter gas pipe & connect hobs.I do alot of kitchens for joiners & it's a pain having to get a gas engineer along everytime theres a new gas hob.

Is it possible?

Do I need to show I'm gaining gas experience at same time as getting the qualification?

Theres a place beside me who have started doing courses but always wary about they type if things.

Thanks in advance.

Hello Dundeeplumber,

I don`t mean this to be patronising - I hope that You know that even having passed the Gas Safety CCN1 ACS Assessment without actual practical experience working with Gas can still be dangerous because inexperience can allow `lapses` in Gas Safety to occur.

With practical experience and having been initially been supervised for a period of time by an experienced and interested Gas Engineer / Installer further training you in actual Gas works you would become a much better and safer Gas Installer.

As Member scott_d stated what you described regarding altering Gas pipework and connecting Gas Hobs obviously has requirements for Tightness Testing, purging, relighting Gas Fires and possibly Water Heaters / older Boilers with pilot lights / firing up Gas Boilers etc.

When getting involved with any of the above YOU would need enough knowledge about ALL types of Domestic Gas Appliances in order to NOT put a possibly Dangerous Appliance back on.

How would you attain such knowledge if you did manage to take Training and Assessment on just `Cookers` ?

Imagine for example that You are working in a property that has an Open Flued Gas Boiler - perhaps in an old Larder or even in a Cupboard within a Bathroom - there are many Regulations and specific requirements that apply to those Installations.

How would you know all of the Installation Regulations / Requirements or even know how much Combustion & Cooling Ventilation was required or whether it was located in an area where it is not allowed ?

However as You have done the CCN1 `Core Gas Safety` there should be no reason why you could not pay a Gas Training & Assessment Centre to do `Training & Assessment` on the other Domestic Gas ACS categories - usually as a package of Appliances.

Most Training and Assessment Centres that I know about offer Training & Assessment for Gas Appliances as package which includes the main Domestic Appliance categories and `Combustion Analysis`.

Additional Gas are categories offered as individual Training & Assessment - for example `Meters` this is because not all Gas Engineers / Installers want that Gas category.

If You are determined to try and attain only the `Cooker` Gas ACS Assessment I would strongly advise against it for the reasons that I described above - prompted by Member scott_d`s comments.

I know that the `Cooker` ACS Assessment can usually be taken as an individual item but I am not sure whether any Centre would offer `Training & Assessment` for that one category ?

Chris

 

[Riley]

It’s difficult and I agree with your sentiment but many places will just train you on boilers so why not hobs/cookers. The same problems still exist

 

[CHRISX]

It’s difficult and I agree with your sentiment but many places will just train you on boilers so why not hobs/cookers. The same problems still exist

Hello Riley,

I am guessing from conversations with the Gas ACS Assessors that I have spoken to in the past that the decision to offer `CENWAT` as an individual Training and Assessment category is guided by demand because I have met many Gas Installers at the College that I have attended to take my Gas ACS reassessments who desribe themselves as `Heating Engineers` and are only interested in installing Heating systems / Boilers.

I have been very surprised at how many I have met that only want / have CCN1 Core Gas Safety, Combustion Analysis and CENWAT or the previous category for Boilers before Heating Boilers and Gas Water Heaters were combined.

I have heard about many situations where the Heating Installer cannot install a Gas Fire or a Cooker / Hob at a property where they are installing a Central Heating system.

With regard to the desire of just having the CCN1 Core Gas Safety and the `Cooker` ACS - if a Gas Installer is installing an old style Cooker that has a high level grill [and low level Grills] the products of combustion which are entering the Kitchen / property from that grill are supposed to be tested with a Combustion Analyser.

Obviously that `Combustion Analysis` Gas ACS Assessment pass would have to be held by the Gas Installer because they may well encounter that type of Cooker and must be competent and equipped to carry out the testing of the high level grill - or low level Grills on Cookers.

That would also mean that the Gas Installer would have to own / have immediate access to a Combustion Analyser that they would have to ensure was sent away for `certificated Calibration` [proof of calibration] when required.

As We know when taking any Gas ACS Assessment ALL of the necessary elements must be covered - including for all Appliance categories the ability to perform `Combustion Analysis` and I am fairly sure that if a person who had CCN1 was wanting to book Training and Assessment for the `Cooker` ACS category they would be advised that they would first need to take Training And Assessment on the `Combustion Analysis` ACS.

Even if Combustion Analysis was NOT required to be performed within the `Cooker` ACS Assessment it would be assumed from the Installer holding the Combustion Analysis ACS Assessment pass that they should know what to do if they were required to carry out an analysis on an Appliance.

On that basis it should also be assumed that a person who did NOT have the Combustion Analysis ACS pass should not be able to book Training and Assessment for any Gas Appliance because the Appliance category should be directly linked to the knowledge and ability / `demonstrated Competence` to carry out Combustion Analysis even if it did not for part of the Appliance ACS Assessment.

I don`t mean this to sound sarcastic but perhaps after reading these replies DundeePlumber`s / the OP`s idea of becoming a Gas Installer but working only on Cookers, Hobs and Pipework will not look so desirable ?

Regards,

Chris

 

[CHRISX]

Hello again Riley,

I have to ask - what do You find `funny` about what I wrote ?

Chris

 

[Riley]

Sorry mate no offence intended fat finger was supposed to be the winner badge

 

[CHRISX]

Sorry mate no offence intended fat finger was supposed to be the winner badge

Thanks for the compliment Riley - I appreciate it from a fellow Professional.

Chris

 

[richard978]

Gas is dangerous full stop, even for experienced engineers. I've made mistakes and anyone who says they haven't isn't telling the truth.

Only last year a plumber was locked up because he cut the flue wrong, he'd done it 100s of times before but on that occasion something went wrong and as a result a woman was overwhelmed by CO . He will have to take that mistake to the grave

Everyday is a learning day in this job, you have to keep your eye on the job and stay focused.

I'm an emergency engineer and I see it all, test nipples left out, gauges still on the meter, flue caps left off, unsoldered joints, gas valves and boiler seals leaking following repairs. If engineers didn't make mistakes I wouldn't have a job. I'm meant to report all these jobs but I won't report the genuine mistake because we all make them. There are some engineers out there knowingly leave dangerous situations, putty over the test nipples because they've lost it and can't be bothered to call us out, or a bit of tape over the flue cap....

So my view is that if you want to learn and have the right attitude towards safety then you'll be ok.