Bed & Breakfast Boiler - please help

[fivefive]

Hey guys,


I have just bought a property currently consisting of two flats, it is a 4 storey Victorian building altogether. We are planning to turn it into a Bed & Breakfast with potentially 10 rooms, while still keeping the building as two flats.


Current Setup: -


Flat A: Ground floor, basement
This flat will have 3 rooms.


Flat B: 1st, 2nd and 3rd floor (3rd floor is just a loft)
This flat will have 7 rooms.
1st floor with 3 rooms, 2nd floor with 3 rooms and 3rd floor loft with 1 room.


Water pressure is between 3.5 (PM) and 4 bar (AM). We believe there is only 1 water main (blue pipe) going into the building.


We are planning to include: -


Each of the 10 rooms will have: -
- En-suite (shower + toilet)
- Small kitchen
12 radiators in entire building
10 towel warmers/radiators in entire building


Basically, we are looking for a suitable new boiler setup but not entirely if the following would be sufficient: -


Flat A: Ground floor flat with 3 rooms: -
System boiler (Vaillant 637) with Unvented Indirect Cylinder 210 litres


Flat B: 1st/2nd/3rd floor flat with 7 rooms: -
System boiler (Vaillant 637) with Unvented Indirect Cylinder 300 litres + 5 bar pressure output (custom made)?


If not, does anyone know what type setup is required please?

Any advice, recommendations would be warmly received.


Many thanks in advance,
fivefive

 

[Reg Man]

Don't want to sound obstructive, but this is a major project. Dip your hand in your pocket and employ a professional consultant that can deliver your expectations.

 

[Howsie]

How have you sized these items you lust?

 

[tamz]

Start by ringing your utility company for a bigger incoming supply then as said get on site professional help.

 

[Killy Bing]

Having been left as an apprentice as my first major task (my apprenticeship was not a normal one) to sort out pretty much this exact project when it went horribly wrong.

you're in for an absolute world of pain if you don't consult a Professional in person and have this designed. The poor couple who i rectified their issues designed the system themselves and had a regular plumber install it. They were in tears some nights over the work i had to re do and sort for them.

its all good and well asking us if it will work, the answer is yes every time BUT under the right conditions and situation and that is something no amount of photos or descriptions will tell us unless we are there.

As a bed and breakfast the plumbing must be right for it, don't try to save on it, ask anyone when they stay anywhere and they will always comment on a bad shower or bath! God forbid it runs cold!

post up in the "im looking for a plumber section" on here to find an engineer who is competent, they will also have the benefit of the rest of us to help them out on their planned course of action should they need it.

my thoughts are as follows.

your planned route has wandered into commercial gas works, you will need a engineer competent and qualified in that area.

you will need a gas meter upgrade.

you will need a new water main possibly one or two sizes up from what it is now.

you will want a secondary return for the hot water.

you want a dedicated plant room

Do not split the systems up, you want the hot water, central heating and boilers linked together to give you a back up.

if one boiler, cylinder or pump goes down then the other can cope somewhat while it is repaired.
with your planned set up a boiler breaks down then you've got half of your rooms out of action.


my essential piece of advice, pay now or that week when you cant rent out half the rooms, you'll think back and say "this week would have paid most of that"


i could say a whole lot more, but its 2am and i just got in from work, ironically from a small hotel that employed some numpty "handy man" to upgrade them to mains pressure and "update" the radiators and central heating over the past week.

The result is the need for three new cylinders, replacing sections of central heating, new loft tanks or updating the mains, repairing leaks and all the toilet fillers!

Good luck

 

[fivefive]

Thanks for the replies!!


We have had different advices from different people, the above setup was from our builders. Then the boiler supplier told us because we only have 1 water main supply, we should get something like: -


A cold water tank with booster pumps
Two cylinders
1 boiler for heat/radiator and 1 boiler for hot water


Professional consultant/help
We are looking for someone reliable and qualified, however we do have a tight budget. Any recommendation please? We are based in London.


A few questions: -


1. How much would it cost to get someone professional to review and design? Any estimate please?


2. How much would it cost to get this project done? Any estimate please? Ideally, we would like to keep the cost down as much as possible due to tight budget.


3. We do want to request an additional water main but have no experience. How much would it cost please? And if we appoint a professional to handle it for us, would they normally guide us through from start to finish of application with Thames Water please? And how long would this process take?


Many thanks,
fivefive

 

[snowhead]

Don't want to sound obstructive, but this is a major project. Dip your hand in your pocket and employ a professional consultant that can deliver your expectations.

And you may even be surprised that the Consultant might save you money on the installation / running costs.

As 1King says, you could loose a lot of money in the future if you get it wrong now.

 

[Centralheatking]

Be very careful who you get to design this set up - go to a proper HVAC company
and then get commercial plumbing heating outfit to fit to the specification.

Trying to get anybody to deal with this in a BIG DOMESTIC approach will fail.

We have fitted this type before so - 1. Two boilers in a boiler room 2. pumped hot water circuit
spring to mind immediately 3. Big thermal hot water store

Hotels have massive demand peaks AM - 6.30 - 9.00 MASSIVE HOT WATER rooms and kitchens
PM is a little more stretched 04.30 - 22.00 but then kitchens clear up.

Also dont forget your customers will not be frugal they are going to tonk your system for water
and heat - they have paid..........more advice pm me CHK

 

[Killy Bing]

Don't listen to the builders.....please don't
Go with what chking has said

What is your tight budget?
we can tell you within reason if it is realistic or not

 

[lame plumber]

first off, where are you, if your in a seasonal resort in the south west then youll have to vary your requirements for heating as youll only be worrying about hw as no bugger visits mid winter. additionally if you are starting fm scratch you need to consider solar thermal hw as well, why pay to heat one of you biggest fixed costs. As mentioned you need a single plant area, twin boilers and twin cyls thereafter 2ndry return on hw and your halfway there. you may not need the full commercial system as described if your footfall isnt massive and you need to verify from other hoteliers the truth about the no a visitors you can really expect!. being your trying to keep 2 flats in the equation already seems to me you dont feel this enterprise may work any how, so look at having two flats on rental as an option, cheaper and better return on expenditure in the medium term. Before you flame me out, I am an ex hotelier who converted to flats in the sw, and v happy I did so, as those that didnt have mostly gone bust. good luck what ever you do

 

[Killy Bing]

first off, where are you, if your in a seasonal resort in the south west then youll have to vary your requirements for heating as youll only be worrying about hw as no bugger visits mid winter. additionally if you are starting fm scratch you need to consider solar thermal hw as well, why pay to heat one of you biggest fixed costs. As mentioned you need a single plant area, twin boilers and twin cyls thereafter 2ndry return on hw and your halfway there. you may not need the full commercial system as described if your footfall isnt massive and you need to verify from other hoteliers the truth about the no a visitors you can really expect!. being your trying to keep 2 flats in the equation already seems to me you dont feel this enterprise may work any how, so look at having two flats on rental as an option, cheaper and better return on expenditure in the medium term. Before you flame me out, I am an ex hotelier who converted to flats in the sw, and v happy I did so, as those that didnt have mostly gone bust. good luck what ever you do

London, solar thermal is most likely not an option

 

[lame plumber]

London, solar thermal is most likely not an option

just seen thames water I.d be hitting the flats option personally B&B is bloody hard work and I rather cop a steady rental at london rates , doesnt the sun shine in London then?

 

[Killy Bing]

just seen thames water I.d be hitting the flats option personally B&B is bloody hard work and I rather cop a steady rental at london rates , doesnt the sun shine in London then?

Tight budget, if its the same building split into two flats in a desirable built up and busy area then the scouffolding, parking and all those assosiated costs would bump the cost up considerably

i fully agree i would have it as flats for a few more years and build up some more savings to increase the budget but from the sounds of it they have already started !

 

[fivefive]

Tight budget, if its the same building split into two flats in a desirable built up and busy area then the scouffolding, parking and all those assosiated costs would bump the cost up considerably

i fully agree i would have it as flats for a few more years and build up some more savings to increase the budget but from the sounds of it they have already started !

Thanks for the advice guys.


Budget for boiler system - To be honest, we don't have a fix one but ideally as low as possible. We want to know roughly how much it's going to be before we go any further into this idea. How much do you reckon the setup will cost at a minimum please?


Space is also a concern. We were initially thinking to put everything in the basement.


We are thinking of adding an additional water main coming in as we have two flats. Any idea how much this may cost please? Would this not increase the water pressure going into the building which means having two system boilers/ cylinders may work?

Many thanks!

 

[lame plumber]

your in LOndon youll just have to get quotes locally to answer your questions to be honest

 

[Killy Bing]

Pay someone to come as a consultant. We really cant give specifics.

 

[Reg Man]

This thread may be getting a little boring. Lets summarise. Building to be converted to B&B. Hot water system needs to provide adequate supply at all times, otherwise you will get pxssed off clients. Requires proper consultation to design a system that will provide what is required. No estimates can be plucked out, until someone see's the job.

 

[Gray0689]

Hey guys,


I have just bought a property currently consisting of two flats, it is a 4 storey Victorian building altogether. We are planning to turn it into a Bed & Breakfast with potentially 10 rooms, while still keeping the building as two flats.


Current Setup: -


Flat A: Ground floor, basement
This flat will have 3 rooms.


Flat B: 1st, 2nd and 3rd floor (3rd floor is just a loft)
This flat will have 7 rooms.
1st floor with 3 rooms, 2nd floor with 3 rooms and 3rd floor loft with 1 room.


Water pressure is between 3.5 (PM) and 4 bar (AM). We believe there is only 1 water main (blue pipe) going into the building.


We are planning to include: -


Each of the 10 rooms will have: -
- En-suite (shower + toilet)
- Small kitchen
12 radiators in entire building
10 towel warmers/radiators in entire building


Basically, we are looking for a suitable new boiler setup but not entirely if the following would be sufficient: -


Flat A: Ground floor flat with 3 rooms: -
System boiler (Vaillant 637) with Unvented Indirect Cylinder 210 litres


Flat B: 1st/2nd/3rd floor flat with 7 rooms: -
System boiler (Vaillant 637) with Unvented Indirect Cylinder 300 litres + 5 bar pressure output (custom made)?


If not, does anyone know what type setup is required please?

Any advice, recommendations would be warmly received.


Many thanks in advance,
fivefive

ACV do a boiler that could suit your project but you would need to speak with them
I can give you an email address for a bloke there that can maybe help you out with spec