Black heating water, non magnetic?

[Nostrum]

Ok so I've replaced a 7 year old ecotec today after the main heat exchanger failed, the system water was jet black, insurance wouldn't cover it, boiler a write off on cost.

So, armed with my new 150 ltrs/min powerflush machine courtesy of Williams & Co ( will let you know when the cheque arrives Ray ) coupled with my magnacleanse courtesy of Williams and Co ( just one cheque is fine) I ripped it out and powerflushed the system with x800 as per usual for me.

the water was really mucky but usually you see it hit the magnacleanse and you can see the difference as it passes through, no so.

anyway carried on the process and on completion whipped the magnets out to show the customer the amazing magnacleanse in action, but barely anything was stuck to the magnets.

its a mystery how a system only 7 years old (new install) could ever get like this, pressure was always good, not topping up or bleeding rads at all.

Any ideas, as I'm a bit stumped as to what's caused this and why it's not stuck to the magnets?

ill post a picture of the water now, it's on my phone.

 

[lame plumber]

Sounds like the installer left cleanser in the system which may have rotted the hex.

 

[Nostrum]

 

[Nostrum]

This is what I thought initially. The customer said they had a leak on a radiator a year after it was installed which is the only time they've had to top up pressure and the bloke who fixed it definitely put inhibitor in after and the water wasn't dirty.

The thing is though, this doesn't explain why it didn't stick to the magnacleanse, surely?

the only thing I could think of was that maybe the new powerflush was passing water through the magnets to quick, but I can't see it when you see the state of the water.

 

[mutley racers]

What connections do you have to go from power flush machine to magnet

 

[Nostrum]

I bought a load of cam 1" lock fittings the same as the magnacleanse comes with. Then adapted the powerflush to take these fittings.

Didn't cost to much but means its all universal so I can use it all separately or together with all the hoses and I don't have to mess around screwing the hoses on to the powerflush machine.

also means I can flush through a magnaclean connection which works well.

 

[Ermintrude]

Our Mag picks it up of our flusher which runs pretty quick. Had a few systems where this sort of thing happened water was like Guinness. It's aluminium oxide. If you rub dirty ally with water u get black paste. Same occurred in boiler? Pretty heavy silting tho. If you add brick acid it should go fizzy then clear? Just like when u clean a level with brick acid?

 

[kay-jay]

To rule out magnetic debris completely I would have switched the pump off the flusher and used the boiler to pump throuhh the Magna cleanse

 

[mutley racers]

I bought a load of cam 1" lock fittings the same as the magnacleanse comes with. Then adapted the powerflush to take these fittings.

Didn't cost to much but means its all universal so I can use it all separately or together with all the hoses and I don't have to mess around screwing the hoses on to the powerflush machine.

also means I can flush through a magnaclean connection which works well.

I see. Where from?

 

[Nostrum]

Our Mag picks it up of our flusher which runs pretty quick. Had a few systems where this sort of thing happened water was like Guinness. It's aluminium oxide. If you rub dirty ally with water u get black paste. Same occurred in boiler? Pretty heavy silting tho. If you add brick acid it should go fizzy then clear? Just like when u clean a level with brick acid?

ecotec has a stainless hex, and all radiators were standard steel stelrads so can't see where the aluminium would come from, interesting through.

 

[Nostrum]

To rule out magnetic debris completely I would have switched the pump off the flusher and used the boiler to pump throuhh the Magna cleanse

flushed before boiler was on off the jig. I'd be surprised if it made any odds, I was flushing for about 3 hours, the system only has 5 rads!

 

[Nostrum]

I see. Where from?

i got mine from pirtek but I found a site that sells them before going to a local pirtek.


Type E. Hose Tail Groove [P20081352] - £2.07 : Hoses Direct

 

[kay-jay]

I'd be surprised if it made any odds, !

You said you thought the flusher may be passing water too quick through the magnacleanse. .....

 

[mutley racers]

i got mine from pirtek but I found a site that sells them before going to a local pirtek.


Type E. Hose Tail Groove [P20081352] - £2.07 : Hoses Direct

So is that all I need 2 of those? So one hose come from flushing machine to magnet, magnet to return and return connection to flushing machine?

 

[vern]

I saw this on a WB CDi, looked black, but on closer inspection it was very dark green, it trashed the main HEX within 8 months, WB replaced as good will, and informed them to get original installer back, which he did not even return their calls, on recommendation I dropped and flushed the system, it appeared greasy, extremly dark green almost black in colour, it had 2 isolation valves on flow and return in garage, so I suspect it was fitted without a flush, but did have a magna clean on return with very little in it I must say, intrigued I had a sample tested, it contained water obviously, fairly liquid, and industrial antifreeze solutions, amongst other things......Fernox or the like will do this for you, cost varies but usually less than £50

I mains flushed 3 times after filling and dropping 3 times on an 8 rad system, added 2 x bottles of F1 Fernox, left for 3 weeks running a lot, then dropped it again, and added a further 2 bottles...all good so far been to service since too, it took 2 days in total and chemicals etc not cheap!

 

[mfgs]

How weird, I am intrigued to find out what it is.

 

[Nostrum]

Funny you say green, Vern, on this occasion it was black going to brown so I'm not sure it was the same as what you found. But I did a job before Christmas and the water that came out was green, as in fairy liquid bright green. The halstead boiler had been leaking for ages out of every join, but the system water was the cleanest I have ever seen, not even a grain of dirt when changing the rad valves etc.

The powerflush I did today would definitely have cleared whatever was in the system originally as I was very thorough but baffled by it all and felt like a right tit pulling out 2 almost clean magnets..

 

[Nostrum]

I've got the magnets still, I didn't wash them off as I was in a hurry. If I remember tomorrow I'll take a pic and post it up, it's really odd when you look at the water in the machine.

 

[Nostrum]

So is that all I need 2 of those? So one hose come from flushing machine to magnet, magnet to return and return connection to flushing machine?

it depends what you want to do, Mutley.

I've basically got 2 15mtr hoses for the machine that have the same connections as the magnacleanse hoses.

i connect the 2 long hoses to the magnaclean connecter, one goes straight to the machine, one goes to the magnacleanse unit. Then I use one of the short hoses you get with the magnacleanse to link the machine to the magnacleanse.

I'm also going to get to make a pump adaptor with camlock fittings so I can connect them to the same hoses.

so I got:

4 x 1" female camlock - 1" female BSP
4 x 1" male camlock - 1" female BSP
8 x 1" BSP - 3/4" hose tail adapters.

 

[Ermintrude]

Prob some DIY cock up. Was talking about idiots draining system after an install so they can play and fit rads. We decided that we are going to use die in the water so that if any issues with water quality of no inhibitor when we drain water should be bright red, if it's not well then ........ Going to test colouring in shop and at home. Any thoughts

 

[Nostrum]

Prob some DIY cock up. Was talking about idiots draining system after an install so they can play and fit rads. We decided that we are going to use die in the water so that if any issues with water quality of no inhibitor when we drain water should be bright red, if it's not well then ........ Going to test colouring in shop and at home. Any thoughts

Definitely not fiddlers, you could tell they aren't the kind to touch it and they seemed like an honest lot as well, Good customer really and they've now cancelled the insurance policy and gone with me so all good.

Re: dye - Make sure you don't get the water on the cream carpets!

I can imagine warranty issues with dyed water, anything to get out of it, plus what if it was semi drained, how can you prove it's not needed topping up from a micro leak or whatever?

 

[vern]

Funny you say green, Vern, on this occasion it was black going to brown so I'm not sure it was the same as what you found. But I did a job before Christmas and the water that came out was green, as in fairy liquid bright green. The halstead boiler had been leaking for ages out of every join, but the system water was the cleanest I have ever seen, not even a grain of dirt when changing the rad valves etc.

The powerflush I did today would definitely have cleared whatever was in the system originally as I was very thorough but baffled by it all and felt like a right tit pulling out 2 almost clean magnets..

Most strange pal......

 

[gassafe]

I did a powerflush last Wednesday, the water was jet black like engine oil but my magnacleanse too didn't pick up a great deal... I just assumed it was black but not much magnite & didn't give it much thought!

Just did the normal flushing, drain down, fernox powerflush chemicals, drain, flush & sentinel x100 on refill! The water was clean as a whistle afterwards so I was happy

it was a potterton profile & 6 rads... About 18 years old... It's nice to do just a powerflush somedays, without rushing it to carry on fitting the new boiler after 10am!!

 

[Riley]

Intriguing I'd like to know the outcome

 

[Ermintrude]

Die, things we been thinking about. Get annoyed with muppets who drop system and just fill with water.