Boiler frost protection built-in CONFlICT with separate one?

[Jurgenjay]

Should not have needed to post this thread but unfortunately have to...

I had the new boiler (worcester bosch greenstar 30i)+ unvented cylinder installed by a gas engineer team recently. As something wrong with the system, I called the installation team, but they said the guy who actually installed it left, so the engineer in charge the team came to repair. He thought he was the separate frost protection (which is next the boiler in garage, see photo attached) wrong, but when he called the installer who told him the separate protection (the old one from old boiler) was disconnected already, the boiler newly installed has built in frost protection.

For some reason, the engineer came and checked the separate frost protection wire which made the consumer box tripped, so does this mean that frost protection was in use & not disconnected?

I then asked this engineer if it was not disconnected, then we should do it now? As the newly installed boiler if has built in frost protection, then it may conflict with the separate frost protection? This could create a problem? He said leave it for now till next time if there's problem he can then disconnect it...

This worries me! This gas engineer did not install this system but he commissioned it. Obviously he is not sure the old separate frost protection is in use or not. If it is, then the built in frost protection and the separate front protection will work together or they will conflict?

As a gas engineer, he should be very certain about this, but he is not! This leaves me to think and ask here....

BTW, the worcester bosch greenstar 30i should have frost protection built in, right?

Thank you for any advice!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

It does but nothing wrong with a separate system eg like you have

What was the fault ?

 

[Jurgenjay]

It does but nothing wrong with a separate system eg like you have

What was the fault ?

The fault was the boiler continued to operate after the timer setting time was off. The gas engineer initially thought it was because the frost protection made the boiler work as the days were cold. But it was not. After replaced the motorised valve the boiler so far works according to the timer.

But he did not give a certain answer if the separate frost protection (as attached in original post) is still in use or not, this leaves me confused.

 

[John.g]

You can't test the external frost stat by turning it up, I think, as these are non settable, but you could take the cover off it and post a photo and someone here can probably tell you what to link out out to test it and see if the boiler fires up.

This is your internal frost protection.

Appliance frost protection If you are leaving your property unoccupied during cold weather, please leave your programmer on constant and your room thermostat set to 15°C. ▶ If the temperature within the appliance falls below 8°C the pump will run to circulate water and prevent the system freezing. – If the temperature does not rise to 9°C within 30 minutes of the pump operating, the appliance will fire up. ▶ If the temperature within the appliance falls below 5°C the appliance will fire immediately, bringing the appliance temperature up to 12°C to avoid the possibility of the appliance freezing. ▶ This process will be repeated until such time that the appliance temperature does not drop below 8°C

 

[Jurgenjay]

You can't test the external frost stat by turning it up, I think, as these are non settable, but you could take the cover off it and post a photo and someone here can probably tell you what to link out out to test it and see if the boiler fires up.

This is your internal frost protection.

Appliance frost protection If you are leaving your property unoccupied during cold weather, please leave your programmer on constant and your room thermostat set to 15°C. ▶ If the temperature within the appliance falls below 8°C the pump will run to circulate water and prevent the system freezing. – If the temperature does not rise to 9°C within 30 minutes of the pump operating, the appliance will fire up. ▶ If the temperature within the appliance falls below 5°C the appliance will fire immediately, bringing the appliance temperature up to 12°C to avoid the possibility of the appliance freezing. ▶ This process will be repeated until such time that the appliance temperature does not drop below 8°C

Thank you John! I am not sure I could test it...

For the internal frost protection, all that paragraph you mentioned：

▶ If the temperature within the appliance falls below 8°C the pump will run to circulate water and prevent the system freezing. – If the temperature does not rise to 9°C within 30 minutes of the pump operating, the appliance will fire up.

===When the pump run to circulate water, will the pump have the same noise as when it is operating during timber is on?
I mean, for example, my timer heating set time off at 9pm, if at 11pm the temperature is 0°C, will the pump circulate water and has working noise?---I don't hear the pump working noise? (after timer is off)

▶ If the temperature within the appliance falls below 5°C the appliance will fire immediately, bringing the appliance temperature up to 12°C to avoid the possibility of the appliance freezing.
===again, when the heating timber off time is 9pm, then at 11pm, the boiler will fire up?---but I never hear/see the boiler starts to fire up at 11pm which is cold recently.

As I asked in original post that my boiler is worcester bosch greenstar 30i which was installed a few months, it should have built-in frost protection, right? But I never see the boiler blue light on again outside timer set time---say at around 11pm I don't see this attached photo blue light is on----the blue light should be on if the boiler frost protection is operating?

Thanks!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

The fault was the boiler continued to operate after the timer setting time was off. The gas engineer initially thought it was because the frost protection made the boiler work as the days were cold. But it was not. After replaced the motorised valve the boiler so far works according to the timer.

But he did not give a certain answer if the separate frost protection (as attached in original post) is still in use or not, this leaves me confused.

The port valve was stick eg always on

Remove the lid of the stat you will see a dial

When ever Is off eg heating set to off and hot water etc

Turn this above the air temp in that room

And see if anything comes on etc

 

[John.g]

Don't know if the blue light should be on but I would be very surprised if the frost protection was not operational 24/7. The 8C probably refers to the boiler water temperature so may not drop to this except very cold ambient temp, the boiler is inside, even if it is in a garage.

 

[John.g]

The blue light would seem to indicate if permanent live is on to the boiler so may mean that the boiler is wired
incorrectly and unlikely that the internal frost stat would be operational 24/7. Someone here will advise what this blue light means.

"No blue Operation/ Fault Indicator Momentary power failure ▶ Disconnect appliance supply, wait a few seconds then reconnect."

 

[Jurgenjay]

Don't know if the blue light should be on but I would be very surprised if the frost protection was not operational 24/7. The 8C probably refers to the boiler water temperature so may not drop to this except very cold ambient temp, the boiler is inside, even if it is in a garage.

Thank you for your reply!
If the blue light may not be on so how can we know if the frost protection is operational?

 

[Jurgenjay]

The blue light would seem to indicate if permanent live is on to the boiler so may mean that the boiler is wired
incorrectly and unlikely that the internal frost stat would be operational 24/7. Someone here will advise what this blue light means.

"No blue Operation/ Fault Indicator Momentary power failure ▶ Disconnect appliance supply, wait a few seconds then reconnect."

What I know is when the boiler is firing up both the blue light and green light are on; if the boiler is not firing up but it is within timer setting time, the blue light is on (not the green light).
But I am not sure if the blue light will be on when, say early morning 1am, 2am outside of timber setting time, but it is very cold, so the frost protection should be operational and---the blue light should be on or not?

In other words, when the frost protection is operational, how do we know it is operational? e.g. blue light on or anything else to let us know?

 

[Jurgenjay]

The port valve was stick eg always on

Remove the lid of the stat you will see a dial

When ever Is off eg heating set to off and hot water etc

Turn this above the air temp in that room

And see if anything comes on etc

"Remove the lid of the stat you will see a dial

Turn this above the air temp in that room

And see if anything comes on etc"

===Did you mean to do this above on the separate frost protection next to the boiler?

 

[John.g]

That's what he means, I would think.
Try it with blue light off and on but with boiler off in both cases.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

"Remove the lid of the stat you will see a dial

Turn this above the air temp in that room

And see if anything comes on etc"

===Did you mean to do this above on the separate frost protection next to the boiler?

The Honeywell frost stat eg the separate old one