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Discuss boiler sizing in the Boilers area at Plumbers Forums

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I am fitting a new boiler into a two story house with 7 radiators and a 900*450 cylinder. Will a 50,000btu boiler be sufficient and what type of boiler would people go for??

Look forward to hearing from you all
 
Hang on a tick, let me wet my finger and stick it out in the wind, how the hell can any body answer your question there is not enough detail for them to answer

You have to calculate the heat loss through the building fabric to get an answer, you could try the wicks and b&q's questimate, spend 40 quid on a mears calculator and get the correct answer, or go back over the postings and find Bernies posting about "stars" and down load that
 
an opinion?

No opinion, you have got to calculate the heat loss through the buildings fabric, the heat loss can be quite different if you were half way up a Scottish mountain, than the same property in the middle of London
 
I am fitting a new boiler into a two story house with 7 radiators and a 900*450 cylinder. Will a 50,000btu boiler be sufficient and what type of boiler would people go for??

Look forward to hearing from you all
add up the total btus of the rads and allow 25000btus for the cylinder

to size the rads theres a heat loss calculator at the top of page on here
http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-forum/4684-btu-calculator.html
at a guess 50000 will just about do the job thousands of houses nhad 50000 btu back boiler however that was 30 years ago and todays expectations of comfort may be higher
on the other hand if its a more recent house it will be much better insulation then 50000s gonna be plenty
 
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Im confused, you say your fitting a boiler so i take it your licensed, yet you seem unsure on boiler sizing and what to install. Am not being impolite, just surprised, your maths should tell you the size.
 
TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND BTU for cylender are you on drugs?:eek:
3KW
 
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Actually 2.5kw for the cylinder... But 3kw is good enough haha.

[DLMURL="http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/business/Global-Data/Publications/Whole-House-Boiler-Sizing-Method-for-Houses-and-Flats-CE54"]Whole House Boiler Sizing Method for Houses and Flats (CE54) / Publications / Global Data / UK Home - Energy Saving Trust[/DLMURL]

Try that, its the same form that i got when doing the energy efficiancy course, which you should of done...if your going to fit a boiler.
 
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you should have energy efficency to comply with part L of building regs
 
TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND BTU for cylender are you on drugs?:eek:
3KW
i wish you got any ?
ive always found a cylinder heated by a 3 kilowatt imersion takes bloody ages to heat up so always allow more than the three kw on the boiler
average three bed house would have about 25000/30000 btus of rads and most were fitted with a 50/55 btu boiler
i supose in these energy saving days we will soon be limited to warm baths to go with the dim energy saving bulbs were soon to enjoy
 
If you're doing an estimate you can obtain rough values by:

Measure each room length x width x height in metres
Multiply by 45 and divide by 1000.
This gives the kilowatts of heating required by that room.

Eg 4m x 3m x 2.5m = 30
30 x 45/1000 = 1.35 Kw

Poorly insulated room/large windows facing north and/or east x 50
Extremely well insulated room x 40

Add all the rooms up (not just the ones with radiators), add at least 2Kw for hot water, add a bit for luck and you'll have a rough idea.


BUT

The proper way to measure for boilers is the Whole of House Boiler Method (I think) - as mentioned in an above post it's Part L. If this is not done the building inspector is likely to ask a number of questions and make life difficult for you.

If you feel it's a trifle complicated (we're not all brilliant at maths) there's no reason why an architect shouldn't be able to do this for a reasonable fee.

Hope this helps.

PS - don't rely on what is already in the house as the radiators might be sized wrongly, new boilers are more efficient than old ones, alterations might have occured in the past, etc.
 
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Whole of House Boiler Method is right dontknowitall. so spend the money like every else has to , it really winds me up
 
If that "spend money ..." was aimed at me, I do - through the nose!

If the comment wasn't for me, my apologies!!

I myself prefer to do both methods and if they tally then I know I'm on the right track and if they don't look similar I know I've got a calculation wrong somewhere.
 
no that wasnt aimed at u dontknowitall it was aimed at people that shouldnt be installing heating systems if they dont know the basics.i had to pay ,so they should as well.
 
Hi lads.

The whole house boiler sizing method is only suitable for gas ,oil ,and LPG boilers upto 25kw not combis ect. It is a quick method which is reasonably accurate but is based on a number of assumptions i.e

Internal design temp of 21c
External design temp dependant on location
Pipe lossess of 5%
Air changes of .7 per hour
Allowance of 2kw for heating the hot water.

When i did the course i was advised NOT to include the 2k for the hot water as you want the condensing boiler to be working hard at nearly full load all of the time due to the fact that it is only efficient when it is in condensing mode . At all other times it is no more efficient than a non condensing boiler of the same capacity.

The best method is to use a proper calculator like the Stars one or one from a radiator manufacterer. I have a Myson one which i got in a copy of a Central Heating Guide.
You input your room sizes and whether or not the rooms have solid floors ,walls and open fireplaces ect and it tells you the size of the radsyou need. From that you can work out the size of thge boiler required.
 
The whole house boiler sizing method is only suitable for gas ,oil ,and LPG boilers upto 25kw not combis ect.
25kW should be mean it is suitable for the majority of properties. If you need anything larger, you will probably be rich enough to employ a consulting engineer who will do all the heatloss calcul;ations for you and present you with a typewritten report and specifiaction so youcan go out to tender for the system.

It may not be directly suitable for combis, but if you size a combi boiler just on the hot water requirement there is a danger that it will be oversized for heating. For example a Vaillant 937 will produce 37kW for HW but 12-28kW for heating. Many modern houses only need 12-15kW for heating. The boiler is unable to modulate below 12kW, so when the weather is warmer it will revert to on/off control.

Internal design temp of 21c - seems reasonable -the maths is not difficult for a different temperature
External design temp dependant on location - sensible; winters in Scotland are colder than Devon
Pipe losses of 5% may be a bit low
Air changes of .7 per hour presumably an average
Allowance of 2kw for heating the hot water. that's the norm - can easily be altered
When i did the course i was advised NOT to include the 2k for the hot water as you want the condensing boiler to be working hard at nearly full load all of the time due to the fact that it is only efficient when it is in condensing mode . At all other times it is no more efficient than a non condensing boiler of the same capacity.
The boiler is in condensing mode if the return temperature is below 55°C. It has nothing to do with how "hard" the boiler is working.

Remeha system and heat-only boilers with weather compensation handle the Hot water in an interesting way - effectively using W Plan (HW priority). A diverter valve (not midposition) is used but installed the "wrong" way round, port A to cylinder, Port B to Heating. Port B is normally open so the heating circuit is open all the time. The boiler is controlled by the weather compensator and room thermostat. When hot water is called for the valve operates, closing the CH circuit and opening the HW circuit. At the same time the boiler disconnect from the weather compensator and automatically increases output to max. You therefore have the full boiler output available for heating the water, which will reduce the time required considerably.


The best method is to use a proper calculator like the Stars one or one from a radiator manufacturer. I have a Myson one which i got in a copy of a Central Heating Guide.
Agreed, but it may be too complicated for some users.

I have use Stars, Kermi and the Barlo one (no loger available) and they all give similar results and are close to the "whole house" calculator. The only problem with the detailed calculators is there are so many choices of materials that the average user will spend most of their time worrying that they have chosen the wrong U value for the floor or wall etc.
 
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