Boxed in flue query

[steve_giraffe]

Hi

I am a homeowner and have been visitied today by British Gas and was told they couldnt cover me due to my flue being blocked in and that i needed some inspection hatches. Never knew about this! The engineer was very helpful and gave me some pointers and said that its a common sense approach to the hatches for my setup, basically as long as it provides access for someone to be able to look in and through will be ok.

My boiler is in my kitchen and because of our conservatory the flue runs horizontally halfway along the kitchen and out through the side wall. The flue has been boxed in by plasterboard and runs approx 2.7metre from the boiler to the wall. The box is 270mm deep and 270mm high (+2.7m long).

The engineer was very helpful and advised I would need two hatches. I have a few questions I hope you could answer for me please.

1. Do my hatches need to be 300x300mm? Obviously they would be too big for my current box - I see there are other sizes on the market would 250x250mm be ok?

2. Do the hatches need to be plastic or metal of a specific standard? The price seems to be from about £15 for plastic then upto £75 for fire rated metal.

3. What do the Buidling Regs say they need to be and do I have to have them installed by someone that can sign off for them or could I install them myself?

4. To cater for my size, does the hatch need to open sideways or so I can custom fit to my size, would it be acceptable to turn the hatch on its side so it opens downwards or upwards? For example have a 250x300 hatch but put it in on its side so would be 300x250?

Many thanks.

Steve

 

[plumber0808]

1.The 250mm hatch should be fine as the box is only 270mm.

2.The hatch material depends on the design build, by the sound of it the cheapest ones will be fine or make your own.

3.you can install them yourself.

4.You are over thinking it, a hatch opening to allow inspection of the flue.

hope that helps

 

[Meady]

They must be 300x300 and be positioned within 1.5 metres of any flue joint

 

[bewsh]

The regulation says that each inspection hatch should be 300x300mm big, made of a material with at least 30 min fire resistance and within 1.5m of an flue joints.

The reason it's supposed to be 300x300 is so that you can get a good look of the length of the flue.

If they are not 300x300 or not made of the correct material and I am able to inspect the length of the flue I always put them down as "Not to Current Standards".

But then if this boxing you have there is able to be taken off then that would be ok anyway, as you can access the flue to inspect it.

 

[lame plumber]

get an independant engineer to install them and service your boiler then you wont have to pay bg monthly and the money saved can be invested into paying for a replacement boiler in the long term.

 

[tamz]

Put a plywood front on the boxing held on with few screws. If you really want to P off any future BG men use dozens of screws :smile:

 

[kozak1968]

The size of the access will depend on the size of boxing. Common sense should come into this. The regs are for guidence. Fire rated access will not be required if the whole of the flue is in the property envelope.

 

[shaunsinky]

you can do it yourself or get a joiner in, you dont need to be gas registered as your not actually messing about with the flue itself, as long as the engineers can see/touch all the joints youll be fine

 

[stoker122]

Shouldn't the BG engineer have classed this as AR?

 

[tamz]

They weren't carrying out any work. Just having a look to see if it was worth fleecing the op.

 

[Nostrum]

Still A.R

 

[stoker122]

They don't look to see if, only how much.
Doesn't duty of care come into it?

 

[aplombier]

There only inspection hatches , so need to be big enough to shine torch in and see if there's any spillage from flue and insect pipes, they can be made out of whatever wood the boxing in is. Then when ther ever becomes problem engineer will see it and rip all ure boxing out to repare flue.

 

[tamz]

Still A.R

It is if you carry out any work.
You will see AR's every day just driving around. I'm sure they would appreciate a knock on the door as you explain you have a duty of care :smile:

 

[Plumbum1]

The believe the regs state without checking the hatches should be every 1.5 metres and at every joint.

 

[Destroyer2813]

They weren't carrying out any work. Just having a look to see if it was worth fleecing the op.

Delicately put Tamz

 

[Nostrum]

Delicately put Tamz

It is if you carry out any work.
You will see AR's every day just driving around. I'm sure they would appreciate a knock on the door as you explain you have a duty of care :smile:

bit different, they entered the property to do an inspection of the boiler. If the flue falls apart tomorrow and it goes to court, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Would have thought BG of all people would have been hot on that.

i can see where your coming from though. It is an awkward one from a business point of view and I wouldn't like to explain my actions to a potential customer, but from a legal stance you are the last engineer on site, ,you've told the customer the hatches aren't there, it needs a warning notice. It could be an ID situation for all you know.

 

[tamz]

They entered the property to sell them an insurance policy. No work involved. The policy was declined until it is brought up to stds.
The guy may not even have been an engineer.
BG are not stupid. They will see this every day and worse. I'm sure their rse is well covered as it always is.

 

[Pelsey]

Plastic hatches will be fine as long as there is plaster board above the flue and it hasn't been cut, as your only cutting into the boxing in. Also 250 mm hatches should be fine I'd just make sure they are by the joints on the flue

 

[stoker122]

They entered the property to sell them an insurance policy. No work involved. The policy was declined until it is brought up to stds.
The guy may not even have been an engineer.
BG are not stupid. They will see this every day and worse. I'm sure their rse is well covered as it always is.

What if a self employed guy went in, identified it is AR and needs hatches then left until they are fitted (or quote to do it accepted)?
An AR appliance has been left in operation, problem arises engineer liable.
Can't see how BG can justify, if the guy can identify the fault he should act on it.

 

[DaveTidy]

If you're qualified (and competant) and see an AR situation you are duty bound to act on it. If he was sales rep and not qualified he can only speculate on if it is AR or ID on previous discussions but obviously it's different if he's registered.


As for whether he's considered to have worked on it or not it doesn't matter as he has seen it and must act. BG have their operational procedures explaining their course of action which are written from the Gas Safe TB regarding flues in voids and hatches.

You couldn't say to a coroner's court 'I know I saw something ID but ignored it as I was working on it,' if it was AR he should have acted.

The drive by is a little different as you could drive round your local town and see hundred's of flue's that are incorrect; I have seen really dodgy ones in the past and dropped a note through the door with my number on it for advice but apart from that you don't have any authority; even rung the old CORGI whi didn't want to get involved on one.

 

[steve_giraffe]

Thanks for the replies. It basically sounds like I can do this myself as long as it can be accessed and I don't have to spend the earth.
The BG bloke left a "at risk label". He looked on his computer and found out when last called to the address by previous owners.
I found him helpful and he pointed me to research this, hence contacting fas safe myself and this forum otherwise I would have spent a lot of unnecessary cash for what is a home day job.