British gas 3 mbar gas leak

[AllyBongo]

Went to fit a gas hob for a customer at the weekend. The customer is an elderly lady who lives alone. On testing the gas, i found it had a 3mbar drop. I isolated all appliances ( boiler, fire, 2 gas heaters and a heater in her greenhouse ) Still 3mbar drop. I informed the lady and asked if she ever smelt gas anywhere, to which she said no.

She then told me BG had fitted her new boiler last week. I installed the hob and tested my work with LDF and an electronic gas detector. Still bang on 3mbar drop. I told her to get BG back to check their work. The house is 3 storeys, so finding this leak could be a hard task, BG must of tested before and after installation, and it looks like have upraged the gas supply on the top floor.

BG came back out today, said they couldnt find it. Shut off her gas supply and told her it was down to her to get someone in to find it!!??

The lady is around 80 years old.Am i wrong in saying BG are in the wrong here??

 

[Alpha man]

Does any of BG's paperwork quote that they have done a tightness test at all when they changed the boiler?

 

[AllyBongo]

I didnt check at the time but the cust. said whoever came out today sais the installer had filled the paperwork out wrong

 

[oldplumber]

if you isolated all the appliances and found that there was still a leak in the pipework then I'm afraid to say your in the wrong for leaving an istallation where you have proved the pipework is unsound! Had you left all the appliances on and had a 3mb leak on the installation, then legally you could have left it assuming the appliances were leaking and it was under 4mb and there was no smell of gas. Probably what bg did. remember you cant have leaking pipework at anytime. You may wish to go back and help the customer? let the arguements begin

 

[kirkgas]

its prob the way you have written it or the way im reading it, but if you identify a 3mb drop on pipe only you should not have fitted the hob, (if your find 3mb drop, fit hob then STILL have 3mb drop it would appear that your work was OK but it still isnt right) however you said you used LDF (i would again assume on just the joints, so what about your new pipework) can you clarify what you have done/tested/left on, again i would have said you have capped the supply as you have confirmed it is on the carcass NOT any existing appliances,
this is gonna run for weeks again, BUT after initial TT and finding 3mb drop you could have connected hob, retested, found 3mb drop still there and left it on with a note saying 3mb drop found, no smell of gas, system left operating, and then let the customer decide what they wanted done, again dont know what conversation you had prior to shutting off the appliances (and again im sticking to the letter of the law, not what some would consider best practice) but once you had decided to isolate/identify leak on carcass you shouldnt have worked on it (prob legally ok but you can now see someone saying maybe you left/caused the leak) and as it is outwith allowance for pipe only it couldnt be left on when you were finished

 

[kirkgas]

if you isolated all the appliances and found that there was still a leak in the pipework then I'm afraid to say your in the wrong for leaving an istallation where you have proved the pipework is unsound! Had you left all the appliances on and had a 3mb leak on the installation, then legally you could have left it assuming the appliances were leaking and it was under 4mb and there was no smell of gas. Probably what bg did. remember you cant have leaking pipework at anytime. You may wish to go back and help the customer? let the arguements begin

haha superb, i read the post, replied then seen yours, thats twice this week we have agreed , people will start talking soon

 

[Bartdude]

If I had found a 3mbar drop on the pipework I wouldn't have fitted the hob,especially as a new boiler had been fitted. By working on a supply with a drop you'll have a bit of a fight on your hands regarding who's to blame.

Good luck.

 

[oldplumber]

it would seem we like to obey the rules, so something my lecturers droned on about sunk in, obviously it wasnt as effective on all those in the class

 

[oldplumber]

I think some people are missing the point (not kirky), if your pipeworks leaking, you have to find and cure the leak before you do anything, you certainly shouldnt walk away and leave it.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

If I had found a 3mbar drop on the pipework I wouldn't have fitted the hob,especially as a new boiler had been fitted. By working on a supply with a drop you'll have a bit of a fight on your hands regarding who's to blame.

Good luck.

i agree went to do a private cooker fit for a tenant last week,found a 4mb drop,refused to fit made safe and left paperwork,turned out council had serviced the boiler a week before it was on their work

 

[yamyam68]

metric or imperial meter?

 

[Bernie2]

As I understand it, even since the start of registration days a 3mbar drop on pipework alone is a NO NO. Funny the same old problems and queries seem to still be cropping up even after many years of regulation.

Part of the problem I think is that the regulations are not as simple or as clear as they could be and perhaps open to to much misunderstanding.

On a basic level a leak in pipework is an uncontrolled escape of gas, its that simple. The reason some leakage is allowed on old appliances is down to wear, but the appliances are usually located in properly ventilated areas or should be and so the gas could probably escape or be so diluted in would never reach the LEL. A pipework leak however could be anywhere, even in a closed space where the gas could be making the space a mini gas holder containing a lovely gas and air mix, just waiting for a spark to set it off.

 

[kirkgas]

metric or imperial meter?

why do you want to know?

 

[GQuigley67]

if you knew there was a drop on pipework, then why did you fit hob ? if you didn't fit hob then BG would have been liable

 

[smillsey]

What meter was it on ?

As another point is if it was a U6/G4 then why did you even start isolating? Yes it is great now you have found a leak on the pipework but you had at least two other existing appliances...

Then again I suppose I would start isolating with 3mbar drop too, just a point as unless you had a g10/u16 or 35mm then technically its within limits.

Hows that spanner in the works... Then again its a pointless statement by me as I would of isolated and checked the carcass too

 

[buckley plumb]

i agree with oldplumber . i had same instance and there is no obligation to isolate the appliances to make sure its not on the pipework but its is good practice .as oldplumber says now you have isolated the appliances and found it to be on the pipes you are liable to class it.
ant

 

[AllyBongo]

Went back to the property today. Turns out the cust had phoned scottish gas networks instead of BG. The meter had been capped. After putting the supply back on and tracing the pipework i found a leaking compression union above the kitchen ceiling. I replaced with soldered fittings and the gas was sound.
I understand what everyone says about me shutting it off and not fitting the hob in the 1st place, hands up i was in the wrong. But knowing BG were in a few days before me i thought they would come back out to repair the leak. I checked BG commisioning paperwork, the bit for tightness test was not filled in and next to it the engineer had wrote "AS BEFORE" Obviously they knew it was there and just left it.
If no one had been working on the gas installation before me, the 1st thing i would of done was explain to the cust and trace/repair the leak, only reason i didnt was cause i presumed it would be on BG to do it, after all, they had ran a new supply up 3 floors. And another thing, the gas supply was off the meter in 22mm and ran approx 20m with bends all over the place for a 33kw boiler, so cant see how they got inlet pressure either

 

[Blake]

Glad you got it sorted mate. What you have to remember is regardless of who did what before, as soon as you touch the gas you are responsible for it. Fix it, make a complaint to BG if needed, or even riddor it if you feel it's serious enough.

I would have tested the boiler if I had concerns about pipe sizing and if found to be inadequate, again reported it accordingly if it was found to be undersized.

 

[GQuigley67]

also that goes to show that 3mb a drop doesn't mean its on the appliance...most people would have left that but you have found a leaking compression fitting in the ceiling and it wasn't on the appliance!! Even though if you left it it would have been acceptable as far as the regs were concerned.