British Gas Flushing scam

[unguided1]

I have decided to resurect this thread because it was originaly it got locked.

My reason for ressurecting it is because of the way BG have been selling their system flushes, This has been of great concern to me and some of my more vunerable customers, these are not allegations they are the truth as I have witnessed, so has anyone else witnessed this and is it still going on?

This is what was posted originally


has anyone come across the scam where a customer calls out British gas on their service contract.
scenario.
First bg engineer turns up and says yes I know what the problem is, its a new pump or a new zone valve or a problem with the boiler. but I dont have the parts to fix it or I do electrics not plumbing I will send sombody out tomorrow. they turn off the system.

The second bg engineer turns and inspects the problem and announces there is nothing wrong with any of the parts on the system, what your system needs is a system flush, your not covered on your service contract so it is going to cost £600 + Vat. customer says get stuffed second Bg engineer leaves having done nothing to the system and left it not working.

This scenario has happend to three of my customers in southern oxfordshire in the last 3 Months.
resulting work
1 new pump fitted.
2 new zone valves fitted
1 new pump and 1 new 3 way valve.
If the second engineer reads this I owe you a drink for the extra work. Cheers (not that I need it).
If anyone else has had expirience of this let me know


A member of BG has been on the forum in a recruiting excercise, I commend this as BG trainning is second to none and the thought that BG are willing to offer jobs in this very depressed time is extremly comendable, But are they going to train them as gas engineers or are they going to train them as sales reps and flushing operatives because of the lucrative flushing scam they have going at the moment. I appreciate that the member of BG is not able to respond to this but I feel that is important enough that the question needs to be answerd by somebody in BG who can.

regards

Mike

 

[WaterTight]

i dare say there may be something to this. i've heard stories myself. but just in the interest of fairness...

if it's a scam i don't understand why the first guy's visit is even necessary - surely it just lessens the credebility of the second

and i'm afraid an allegation doesn't stop being an allegation when someone says they have witnissed it, any accusation of criminal activity is an allegation until proved one way or the other in court.

but yeah, any big business that isn't perpetually pushing the boundaries between aggressive sales and outright criminality is no big business at all.

 

[Mitefixit]

Even though I am, an advocate of power flushing and truely believe that most problems with the boiler or central heating is related to systems being dirty. I have heard and seen many complaints for good reason. Why are they charging so much for the same thing someone else can do for 70% less?

 

[Barry98]

it isnt just BG though theres some other big boys doing it

 

[unguided1]

It is true that there are many companies out there doing this the point I am trying to make is that BG being the type of company that it is, is supposed to be out there setting the standard that other lesser companies aspire to. But when they turn up at a persons house who they have a maintenance contract with and refuse to work on the appliance or system unless the homeowner signs up to a full system flush apparently now costing over £700 and then leave with out honouring the maintence contract, leaving the customer with no heating and hot water, then surely this is tantermount to blackmail.

At the end of the day any company that has a contract with a customer has a duty of care for that customer therefore getting repaired what needs repairing as it should be, If the system is in such a state that it needs a system flush then fair enough offer the service.

Also how can any engineer turn up to a heating system and tell it needs a system flush, with out first of all testing the system, are they now issuing Xray specs ?

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

Just be careful Lads

I am watching this thread

 

[unguided1]

Hi Plumbstar Tom

I apprecate tha fact that you are watching this thread, I would like to say that this is an extremley touchy subject and I am no way trying to get myself banned or sued, But I would say that I have a number of customers who have been treated in the way that I am discribing in South Oxfordshire who are really not satisfied. On the last thread on this subject it appeared theat this was a nationwide problem not just isolated to my area and I would love to know if it is still going on.

We have all seen the goings on on programmes such as rogue traders and many self employed engineers are treated extremely suspicously when they turn up at someones home. The homeowner should not have to feel the same when they are employing national companies.

regards

Mike

 

[villa_tom]

Fairplay for bringing the subject up as I am sure many feel the same way you do. But I sub to BG and they wouldn't go to a job and just recommend a powerflush and refuse to fix, unless the customers have been warned of the problem.

Example

Engineer turns up and finds fault on pump. Pump gets changed but on removal sludge is present in the system. BG would then recommend a powerflush and would not replace parts again if damaged due to sludge untill work has been done to rectify problem (but the pump would get changed on the first visit). So the parts will get change the first time. They do recommend a flush but no one is forced to have it done by BG.

I would do the same if somebody was paying me £x a month and I kept replacing parts due to a sludge problem, you have to draw the line somewhere.

 

[gavinwilson]

i had to have a power flush before bg would even accept me on the service contract (at the time £500)but in there defence they then did do a lot of work on my system in the coming months (new pump,replacing pipework)i have now cancelled the contract because they say they can no longer get parts for my boiler(granted the boiler is 8+ yrs old)but i have heard bg going halves with the customer on a new boiler because it was costing too much to maintain so i suppose they have their plusses and obvious negative points ,but put ur self in their shoes if someones paying you 20 pound a month you would want reassurance its at least a decent working order.(before you ask no i dont work or in any way connected to bg just a training plumber

 

[unguided1]

This is what I posted originally


hi all
The reason why I called it a scam is because at the time of writing the thread, a number of BG customers in South Oxfordshire, had asked me for a second opinion on BGs diagnosis and in several cases, BG had failed to diagnose physical problems with the systems, including a broken pump and a leaking and broken diverter valve, and one Vunerable old lady who had a boiler less than 5 years old and stickers on it clearly stating dates and times when inhibitor had been put into the system.

The way that I saw it at the time of writing this thread is that BG did not cover power flushing on their maintenance scheme and saw it as an opertunity to make money. If the customer agreed to the power flush any faults on the system would then be rectified. If the customer then said no to the power flushing then BG refused to touch the system because it was not up to standard.
As I have said before I would like to thank BG for giving me more customers.
I would also like to say that as far as I am aware nothing like this has happend in the last 6 months to my knowledge, so maybe BG have changed their policy
Regards
Mike

I still do not know if it is still going on But I can assure it was

 

[mfgs]

Fairplay for bringing the subject up as I am sure many feel the same way you do. But I sub to BG and they wouldn't go to a job and just recommend a powerflush and refuse to fix, unless the customers have been warned of the problem.

Example

Engineer turns up and finds fault on pump. Pump gets changed but on removal sludge is present in the system. BG would then recommend a powerflush and would not replace parts again if damaged due to sludge untill work has been done to rectify problem (but the pump would get changed on the first visit). So the parts will get change the first time. They do recommend a flush but no one is forced to have it done by BG.

I would do the same if somebody was paying me £x a month and I kept replacing parts due to a sludge problem, you have to draw the line somewhere.

Agreed, I do a bit of subbing to BG and its basically as tom says.

If you are replacing a pump with every annual service and a zone valve every other year, rads are pinholing regularly and the customer has been advised of the problems with the system and the need for it to be cleaned out and treated with chemicals. They cant really argue when BG turn around and say you havnt taken our advice (it doesnt have to be flushed by BG, it just needs a flush) so we can no longer cover any faults due to sludge in the system.

If people are going around, seeing some sludge and refusing to fix it then thats wrong. In some instances, if there are existing problems due to sludge in the system then they wont take it onto contract which they are well within their rights to do. You also have to remember, if BG powerflush it they offer a very long guarantee with it.

 

[plumber0808]

i have followed after bg on many a job.
always same scenario, boiler has had a few parts changed until they either dont know what the problem is or they are not willing to throw anymore money at it.
customer does not know what to do as their trust is with bg.
engineer explains that they can not do anymore to the boiler until its powerflushed as the problem lies there at a cost of 3 times the going rate.
i roll up drain down and am able to drink the water its that clear (but didnt)
easy job for me though

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Just be careful Lads

I am watching this thread

i am with tom on this one lads sorry,the forum will not promote,condone or get involved in slanderous claims against bg difficult subject really i am sure admin would not want to get a debate like this underway,think carefully of what your posting,the forums best interests must be considered

 

[Dannypipe]

Seems a bit silly that we can't all just be honest without being accused of being slanderous.

If we were on here saying how great BG are there would be no issue.

I've come across this scam a good few times, exactly the same as the OP, I've had to change a couple of pumps, valves, and in one case I did have to powerflush the system....but not for £800.

Sure my post will get edited/deleted, but I'm not being rude, or lying.

Frankly I don't care that BG do this...I'm too busy paddling my own canoe, trying to give the best service I can, and not rip people off.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Seems a bit silly that we can't all just be honest without being accused of being slanderous.

If we were on here saying how great BG are there would be no issue.

I've come across this scam a good few times, exactly the same as the OP, I've had to change a couple of pumps, valves, and in one case I did have to powerflush the system....but not for £800.

Sure my post will get edited/deleted, but I'm not being rude, or lying.

Frankly I don't care that BG do this...I'm too busy paddling my own canoe, trying to give the best service I can, and not rip people off.

its not that but we are on the www so anyone can monitor,so careful wording must be considered ,and i am sure your not being rude but think carefully if bg read this and kicked up a fuss

 

[Dannypipe]

Sure I understand, but the internet is chocoblock full of slander. You'll find negative comments on just about everything. As said, I have no personal axe to grind with BG.

However, in my opinion: I think some of their clients pay over twenty quid a month to them, don't claim anything for months/years, and the first time a problem occurs, they pull out the sludge card and demand the system needs a PF. Seems I'm not alone.

In the interest of fairness, I've also wittnessed BG repair notoriously crappy boilers up and down whole streets when honouring their contract, and I've been working for the poor sap who cancelled theirs. (New builds where everyone gets the same boiler).

So take the rough with the smooth.

 

[stevetheplumber]

would one of the bg boys on here tell us how much they get as commision for getting a powerflow job?bet its more than the pound they get for a co alarm

 

[tamz]

Just about every open system in the country will have some sludge present. It is inherent in the system by its design. Whether or not it presents a problem is another thing. Some by the way they are piped are really bad.
BG suffer the same problem as every other company (especially large ones) in that they send a guy to the job and go on his judgement. They give (good) training and let them loose. How the individual deals with things will be a hit or miss. Some guys will be spot on and others mediocre to downright useless.
Perhaps the biggest influencing thing, is by offering commission to the fitters for additional items sold, they make the problem worse. Many will sell wherever they can to top up their wages whether it is necessary or not as everyone likes a bit bonus. This is a countrywide thing.
There are a LOT of numpties with BG now as the older guys move away. They may be able to find and fix the boiler fault (if they can't with the amount of information they get given they they should be shot) but many don't know their rs from their elbow regards systems (they have no real experience) so that is another problem. What is the point of a powerflush (if it is needed) when the underlying problem is not corrected?

 

[unguided1]

Fairplay for bringing the subject up as I am sure many feel the same way you do. But I sub to BG and they wouldn't go to a job and just recommend a powerflush and refuse to fix, unless the customers have been warned of the problem.

Example

Engineer turns up and finds fault on pump. Pump gets changed but on removal sludge is present in the system. BG would then recommend a powerflush and would not replace parts again if damaged due to sludge untill work has been done to rectify problem (but the pump would get changed on the first visit). So the parts will get change the first time. They do recommend a flush but no one is forced to have it done by BG.

I would do the same if somebody was paying me £x a month and I kept replacing parts due to a sludge problem, you have to draw the line somewhere.

Hi Villa Tom

The scenario you have posted, I agree is perfectly acceptable but as I have said at the time of the original posting, the systems that I was called in to deal with had faults on the systems they had not worked on the systems, therefore having no idea if there was sludge in the system, They should have repaired and inspected the systems before condemning them. I repaired and inspected the systems to find them clear of sludge. I also found inhibitor labels, one job I found that the problem was a leaking packed up zone valve inside a boxing, the original engineer hadnt even bothered to ascertain what the problem was, his answer was a power flush.

I agree that a power flush is perfectly acceptable on systems that need them but having looked on many of the threads on this forum many people seem to think it is a cure all for any problem, without going through a logical regime to find out why the system is not running properly.

For example if a system has a number of radiators that have cold spots and maybe one or to radiators are not running, would you immediatly assume it needs a system flush or would you check that all the radiators are properly vented and that the system is properly balanced check the pump is working check the zone valves. There are many checks that can be done to a system to bring it back to full health and flushing I feel in many cases should be the last resort.
regards

Mike

 

[glennybee]

Hi folks,

I'm glad I found this thread and apologies for the bump. But I'm having problems with my hot water not being hot, nothing wrong with the flow or the purity of it when it does come out, it's simply cold. Had a BG engineer out who said there was sludge in the pipes and would cost be around £600 to flush it, that was his fix, nothing else. I think I'm going to ask for another engineer to come out after I flush it myself.

 

[leelister6]

I had an old couple phone me up last week saying a few radiators were only getting hot at the top. Vented system been in 30+ years so I drained down, took all the rads off and flushed out with hose, cleaned out the header tank, flushed the pipework through and refitted the rads. Added some system cleaner and ran the heating for a week. Been back today to drain off, filled up and ran for an hour then drained off again and was clearer than Evian water. Inhibitor added and like a new system and all for a lot less than £600 + vat.

 

[glennybee]

Hi Leelister6,

Thanks for confirming that £600 is too much. It would be nice to know how much I could expect to pay for that kind of service though.

 

[leelister6]

It took me just over a day and a half altogether so I charged for 2 days plus materials. I would depend on the individuals daily rate which is generally dependant on location and the amount and size of radiators on the installation. You could get a few quotes from local plumbers if you specify to them what you want done

 

[bob the plumber]

i had a friend on a bg contract who had a boiler breakdown, something reletively straight forward like a diverter or so on that was covered by his bg cover. However they told him that his system needed a flush at the same above price at £600 plus VAT. I told him they were taking him for a ride, so he got back in touch and asked for just the repair to be carried out. To be honest the system he is on probably would have cost only a few more hundred to bloomin repipe 6 rads?! In all fairness the guys at college who got me though my gas were all ex bg and there knowlegde was incredible however you cant help get the impression at times they will do anything for a quick buck when you hear stuff like this. Magna Clean installs aswell??? they charge 300 + quid, that to me is excessesive when i never taken over an hour to put one in I was also speaking to a plumbase rep today who said the bulk of bg work in boiler changes is now carried out for the elderly as there less likely to compare prices on the internet and so on???? the new radio ad cracks me up!! 400£ off a WB boiler if you trade yours in??? £400!!!!! must be a bargin the public must think, not when there charges you 3.5k and all the pipe work is present and correct

 

[bob the plumber]

i cant get in trouble for my mini rant can i?