Builders not wanting to zone house.

[Matt0029]

I think I am correct in saying that building Regs part L1a states that a house over 150 sqm, should have its heating system zoned. However the builders I work for don't want to zone it due to added cost of installation and time. I think they have stated that because the house had its planning permission granted in 1997. They are working to 1997 regs. Not sure if this means they don't have to comply with Building Regs Part L1a any thoughts on this. Thanks.

 

[gingalig]

If you are self certificating then presumably you would be responsible for any issues this may cause if conflicting with building control, part L1a is clear in that all new builds over 150 m2 need zoning, part L1b all extensions to existing or significant works to an existing system unless it's exempt due to listing or other criteria. I would be interested to establish what significant works were defined as and whether something like the Evohome system would conform in creating zones through electronic wifi TRV's. On an existing system. If you are responsible for the sign off I would be cautious and probably phone building control to clarify, they are usually pretty helpful.

 

[Matt0029]

Thank you, yes the issue I have is that the boiler bench mark book has a section to tick that the installation complies with building regs.

 

[snowhead]

If he thinks he can work to 1997 Building regs then he'll be wanting to fit a non condensing boiler, best of luck with that. If this is a new build that will be for sale he'll have no end of trouble with buyers and thier Solicitors, that's if he can find a buyer that wants a brand new, old house.

 

[Darren Jackson]

Is this a new build that has been sat on plan for 21 yrs or are you doing some upgrade work to the house?
Any how any work will have to meet current regs not 1997 regs regardless if it's a new build or an upgrade to existing. Also the 150m2 rule can be confusing as all new installs / upgrades need to be zoned even in buildings under 150m2. The difference is under 150m2 the zones can run off one programmer + 2 room stats, And over 150 m2 there has to be seperate programmers and room stats for each zone.

 

[gingalig]

Now I'm confused, the wording of part L1b suggests that if significant works or alterations take place there would be a requirement for Zones. And Part 1a seems clear about 150m2 ?? I'm not arguing the toss here but would love some clarification, I personally think zoned heating makes sense especially in a new build, although if an existing system doesn't have anywhere near the right pipework it's going to cost more than you're ever likely to recoup once you have room stats and decent Trv"s. In the Op's case, I would not want to sign it off and the idea of working to 1997 regs is laughable.

 

[Matt0029]

Is this a new build that has been sat on plan for 21 yrs or are you doing some upgrade work to the house?
Any how any work will have to meet current regs not 1997 regs regardless if it's a new build or an upgrade to existing. Also the 150m2 rule can be confusing as all new installs / upgrades need to be zoned even in buildings under 150m2. The difference is under 150m2 the zones can run off one programmer + 2 room stats, And over 150 m2 there has to be seperate programmers and room stats for each zone.

it's a new build that has been sat yes.

 

[Matt0029]

Any one got a link to part L1a that quotes this? I am struggling to find it. I know about it from just finishing college but will show the builder documentation so they cant argue.

 

[gingalig]

Any one got a link to part L1a that quotes this? I am struggling to find it. I know about it from just

Approved Document L1A: Conservation of fuel and power in new dwellings | Part L - Conservation of fuel and power | Planning Portal

Page 26 , table 4, note 5

 

[oz-plumber]

Matt,
As you stated
- just finished college.
-Builder who claims to be building under regulations from 1997.

Guess who's going to be taken to the cleaners after this job?

You!!!

As if the builder is going to claim that since the permit was taken out in 1997, he is wanting you to do the work that complies with the date the permit was applied for.

It will be on your onus to do the work to current regulation, or you will be liable to make the new works comply with current regulations.

I would love to go on, but I would walk away from this one.

 

[Best]

Just ring the local building control and speak directly to a building inspector and ask them to drop in and speak to the builder about what they will allow re zones or no zones.
Tell the building inspector not to say who tipped building control off.
If builder was wrong, that’s his problem

 

[johnduffell]

they have stated that because the house had its planning permission granted in 1997. They are working to 1997 regs.

yes and the queen mother was born in 1900 so why don't they work to those? What matters is when the building notice was put in (or the full plans to building control). Just ask to see the conditional approval document issued by building control when the plans were submitted, check the date and the referenced plans. You should be able to look at a copy from building control directly, but they may charge.

 

[Murdoch]

I thought that planning permission only lasted for 3 years ....

 

[gingalig]

I thought that planning permission only lasted for 3 years ..

Once the footing are In the ground and Inspected it remains in place, it can also be extended from the period of granting easily, once it comes up for renewal as long as it's before the expiry date.

 

[oilmark]

Is he using mud and straw for the structure?

 

[gingalig]

Is he using mud and straw for the structure?

It's what my house is made of.

 

[dan_the_plumber]

Honeywell electronic TRV’s might be a good way around this.

 

[dan_the_plumber]

Honeywell electronic TRV’s might be a good way around this.

 

[fixitflav]

Honeywell electronic TRV’s might be a good way around this.

You can say that again! Hang on, you did

 

[Matt0029]

just read up on these. Is the use of these an acceptable alternative to zoning by running two circuits. As each room is programmable?

 

[dan_the_plumber]

just read up on these. Is the use of these an acceptable alternative to zoning by running two circuits. As each room is programmable?

I was reading about them recently. I think they might be an acceptable alternative. You’re best off phoning Honeywell technical helpline. They’re really good and will be able to advise fully.

 

[gingalig]

I was reading about them recently. I think they might be an acceptable alternative. You’re best off phoning Honeywell technical helpline. They’re really good and will be able to advise fully.

Was there any definitive answer on the Honeywell system ?

 

[AWheating]

Just zone one rad next to boiler.

 

[dan_the_plumber]

Was there any definitive answer on the Honeywell system ?

Sorry I did speak to Honeywell a while back but don’t remember exactly what they said. I ended up doing 4 completely separate Heating zones and a hot water zone for a block of 4 flats

 

[gingalig]

Sorry I did speak to Honeywell a while back but don’t remember exactly what they said. I ended up doing 4 completely separate Heating zones and a hot water zone for a block of 4 flats

L1a seems pretty clear that the pipe work has to be zoned, L1b seems a slightly grey area, as in when major refurb or replacement there's is a requirement to bring up to standard, I think I'm best to phone honeywell and see if the evo system is adequate or whether you could argue the toss In terms of compliance, no own seems to be definitive on it, and I'm sure there's a whole bunch of upgraded systems out there that are not strictly to regs as the cost could be prohibitive.