Buteline - at risk of poking a hornets nest.

[w7r]

Hi all. I'm looking at replacing the my ageing copper sealed CH system pipework using, dare I say it, Buteline. I'm a reasonably competent DIY'er and given my past experiences with plumbers I've decided to give it a go myself - I'm probably not doing myself any favours here but hey-ho. The existing installation is around 30 years old and has been done using a 22mm flow and return which is basically a tiny circuit with very long tails (some over 6mtrs in 15mm to the rads (total of 11) and no pipe insulation to be seen. The whole install is complete pants - no clipping, poor notching etc. Fortunately many of the rooms are being stripped and are about to be refurbed so theres minimal crap hindering access to the underfloor space both upstairs and downstairs.

I've considered Hep, JG and of course copper however after reading up on the Buteline systems it seems to tick a lot of boxes due to the tidy size of the fittings, and the flexiblility, ease of running the pipe, fewer joints, no hot work, (other than soldered copper tails) the fact that it's crimped as opposed to relying on bulky grip or screw-on fittings - which I just don't trust.

Does anyone have any experience of this stuff (good and bad) and what are the pitfalls or advantages of the system?

Of course I could give it a go in copper - I've soldered quite a few joints and can bend so not overly worried by that but just thinking I could save a lot of time and aggro by going plastic.

Would appreciate any comments.

thanks, C

 

[DXCross]

Haven’t used buteline myself but I’m sure a few of the others will be able to have a say on that...

I’d always go Copper over plastic any day of the week.

Take a look at crimp fittings for copper. Similar design in some ways (xpress, mapress)

The pressing machine is easily hireable in a hire-it and fittings aren’t too expensive. Just be aware you need a fair bit of room to crimp or forward planning

 

[townfanjon]

Copper everytime mate

 

[oz-plumber]

Reasonably competent DIY'er and past experience with Plumbers,
wants to undertake a job he has no experience in and now wants advice from plumbers.

Just use plastic pipe with push fit fittings - it made for people like you.

 

[Welder]

Reasonably competent DIY'er and past experience with Plumbers,
wants to undertake a job he has no experience in and now wants advice from plumbers.

Just use plastic pipe with push fit fittings - it made for people like you.

Without being rude, as OZ has said, it's a little rich to disparage plumbers to the point of discarding their services only to come and ask those same apparently useless people for advice on dispensing with their services!

Being a plumber means you clock up thousands of man hours learning - regardless of the level of that learning. Being DIY means you have no real concept of the width & depth of knowledge required to do any plumbing job. Might I respectfully suggest you do as we have all had to do and learn the hard way.

BTW - the answer is copper. Why? Bitter, expensive, hard earned experience.

 

[SimonG]

Soldered copper.

and so endeth today's lesson.

 

[w7r]

@DXCross @townfanjon. Thanks for your replies - appreciated.

@oz-plumber @YorkshireDave
I didn't mean to disparage plumbers - my comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek - if I've offended you in some way then please accept my apologies.

Over the the last 18 months I've had two plumbers in to do work - both of which didn't carry out pretty simple tasks to an acceptable statndard - eg no pressure testing post extending central heating into loft conversion, no isolators on hot and cold, radiators not fixed using right fittings and when I pulled them up and they bellyached about it depsite being payed good money that I had to graft for. Late last year I had a recommended GAS Safe registered plumber come to service my boiler and look at why it was cutting out and dumping out of the PRV. He replaced the PRV (didn't use genuine Vaillant - told me it was though and charged £35 quid for a £10 part), and left site.

Two days later I discover a pool of water on the floor below the PRV, after taking a look at it it's leaking from the joint to the outlet pipe - the thing was loose and still dumping. When I called him about it he couldn't give a toss and gave me some BS excuse. Needless to say after handing over £100 to him I was a bit Soded at his attitude.

After doing some research it turns out the expansion vessel had gone - I replaced the EV with an external one, sorted the PRV leak and it's been fine since.

Given the above, maybe you can appreciate why I'm a bit reluctant to go through the hassle if I can do it myself. It's easy to for you to have a dig at a muppet DIY'er but when I can't easily find someone relaible who isn't trying to mug me off then what's wrong with me having a go if it saves me some stress and I can get the job done, and if it goes **** I've only myself to blame.

cheers, C

 

[oz-plumber]

No offense taken....

.....PS: We can't tell from reading your post that it was 'tongue in cheek'.
Some of us plumbers are 'precious, delicate and fragile' and take offense to almost anything.

 

[Rob Foster]

Anyway, its copper under the boiler always, copper 15 mm up to the rads...cause it looks right and has to be near the boiler, and is strong and resists bashing. What you do eleswhere is up to you, I did my 3rd floor in hep 2 15 years ago because I was fed up getting covered in flux never a leak or a problem...it has gone yellow..like nicotine but thats it. centralheatking. I would never do this for a customer
copper all the way, unless its underfloor or in walls

 

[Rob Foster]

No offense taken..

...PS: We can't tell from reading your post that it was 'tongue in cheek'.
Some of us plumbers are 'precious, delicate and fragile' and take offense to almost anything.

Yea, we need hugs...and are easily offended as if. centralheatking

 

[Jerry]

Copper on show

Plastic nearly everywhere else.

I use crimped copper fittings (Mapress) and crimped plastic (Buteline).

Buteline has a 25 year manufactures guarantee (if done through the right channels).

 

[w7r]

Thanks for the replies all. I’d definitely be doing copper up to a couple of meters before the boiler, copper tails to the rads and vertical pipe work leaving plastic for under floors - plastic on show a definite no-no as far as I’m concerned. The Xpress and Mapress systems look interesting but I’d still be messing with lengths of copper pipe and the restrictions that come with it when running through joists. I’m torn - still. Think I’ll have a good poke about at the weekend and see what’s what when I get to lift some boards.