CH Issue on new system

[cr0ft]

Hi all,

Quick question, been out to an odd callback a week ago. Tiny pinging noises in the pipes of a new CH system with system boiler and unvented cylinder. Quiet but noticeable pinging noises all round the house where there's pipes. Definitely not pipes rubbing against anything, we're always careful of that and notch the joists enough so the pipes aren't rubbing on floorboards. Only happens when the heating is running.

Am pulling my hair out trying to work out what it might be!! Any ideas?

 

[hammers4spanner]

Hard to say without hearing it but maybe grit in the pipes moving around?

No matter how careful it does happen

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Too much flow on cylinder coil ?? needs lockshield gate valve on return from cylinder if it is

 

[hammers4spanner]

Too much flow on cylinder coil ?? needs lockshield gate valve on return from cylinder if it is

Never heard it ping without that and loads are fitted without but never say never

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Never heard it ping without that and loads are fitted without but never say never

Normally that or an bead/pea of solder that's come loose and flying round the system and hitting the copper on bends etc

 

[cr0ft]

Grand. How do I get that bead out?? Sounds like a nightmare!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Grand. How do I get that bead out?? Sounds like a nightmare!

If it is flush it out eg waste water open the return up and flush mains through until no more pinging now this is just a theory

 

[gassafe]

If it was solder I'd expect it to get lodged or rest somewhere eventually

 

[Chalked]

When you notched the joists. Did you line the timber with felt?

 

[hammers4spanner]

I know dirt in the pipe can make a pinging /rattling noise as had it before , sometimes its just water board doing work in the street and dirt travels into system .

 

[cr0ft]

Hi folks.

No felt under clips but to be fair it's not a creaking noise and the pipes have room to expand in the nail clips, not touching the floorboards above.

Definitely sounds like something inside the pipes to be fair! Going to pop hack and drain and refill next week.

 

[gassafe]

Hi folks.

No felt under clips but to be fair it's not a creaking noise and the pipes have room to expand in the nail clips, not touching the floorboards above.

Definitely sounds like something inside the pipes to be fair! Going to pop hack and drain and refill next week.

Put the customers tea strainer under the end of the hose & you'll see if you caught anything lol

 

[bright spark]

Well Croft is it noisy with boiler running(system hot) and just pump running system cold.
Did ye try another pump just to rule it out. It'll cost ye a few quid but ye can rule it out then.
Sure ye'll use it again.
Just go through things like turning off rad valves too. Ye kno the way ye get system hammer with trvs fitted wrong way round.
I think it's a think outside d box 1 here.
All d best

 

[cr0ft]

Ok here's an update. Went out myself to have a listen to this. So far we've tried: -

1.) Mains flushing through the whole system to rule out debris etc in the pipes.
2.) Removing all TRVs in the house to rule out faulty TRVs.
3.) Lifting floorboards again in half of the house just to quality check pipes aren't touching joists anywhere. The noise isn't the noise of pipes rubbing against joists though.

Basically, within about 20s of the boiler going on to warm the radiators, (and to a lesser extent when cooling down) the pipes themselves are creaking all around the house. When we removed the clips from the pipes in the hall and let the pipes lie free they were still clicking all over the house when expanding.

You can actually see the pipes expanding as they warm up.

Not sure I can do anything about copper expanding as it warms up to be honest, but the noise is definitely coming from the copper pipe as it expands rather than it rubbing against anything.

Anyone got any ideas? I'm at a loss for what to do now tbh.

Cheers,
Keiran.

 

[Last Plumber]

If it's not solder, could it be zone valve slipping ?

 

[kb76]

What boiler is it and does it happen when heating cylinder only? Is there a bypass on the system, I've known certain cheaper ones to play up. Check behind pump and internal bypass inside boiler. Sounds like a nightmare Croft, long painful process of elimination...these things do happen!

 

[Scott_D]

How long are the straight runs?
Expansion bellows needed?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

As above how long are the runs (main)

 

[cr0ft]

The main 22mm pipes run the length of the house. Diagram with rough measurements attached showing pipework between ground and first floors only.

 

[cr0ft]

It's definitely down to pipework expansion. You can hear them clicking even when the floorboards above them are lifted. It's not something running through them. Happens all over the house and only when the heating is warming up, not the hot water (cylinder is right next to the boiler in the garage).

 

[kb76]

Fit additional vessel on return under boiler?

 

[cr0ft]

Did think about that but if I needed one the pressure in the heating system would be spiking every time it warms up, which it isn't really.

Still going to do that next week though, just to rule something else out.

The runs in the diagram above aren't all entirely straight, there's the odd elbow in them in places too.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Did think about that but if I needed one the pressure in the heating system would be spiking every time it warms up, which it isn't really.

Still going to do that next week though, just to rule something else out.

The runs in the diagram above aren't all entirely straight, there's the odd elbow in them in places too.

How many rads ?

 

[cr0ft]

12 radiators in total, 5 small rads/towel rails upstairs, 3 small rads downstairs and 4 larger rads downstairs. I did think about the expansion vessel being close to the limit but if it was there would be a significant increase in pressure every time the heating system warms up, right?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

12 radiators in total, 5 small rads/towel rails upstairs, 3 small rads downstairs and 4 larger rads downstairs. I did think about the expansion vessel being close to the limit but if it was there would be a significant increase in pressure every time the heating system warms up, right?

So your expansion should be 12l about what size is fitted ?

And the copper would just soak up some of the expansion eg by growing