Concertina toilet pan connector/soil stack leaking at joint.

[Malcolm Daniels]

Did some repairs to upstairs cistern (using a lot of advice here - thanks). Decided to fit a new concertina toilet pan connector while everything was accessible. What we bought & how it was fitted is identical to existing.

Lubricated with fairy liquid the concertina slid extremely easily into the horizontal soil stack pipe (the bit with the rubber seal inside), BUT, though it does not appear to have been leaking before, it is now!

Just the tiniest 'drip' but obviously can't be left. The 'seal' doesn't seem to be tight enough & it can't go in any further. I've been advised that what should be pushed into the stack end first, should be a plain section of pipe only about 4" long, & it will be secure in there by the rubber seal already inside the soil stack.

Than the concertina pan connector will push into the other end of this piece of pipe. I don't quite understand, is this correct? An ordinary piece of pipe, with no seals either end of itself, will have the concertina merely pushed in on one end, & then itself push into the soil stack?

Not sure if this is making sense, so hope someone can advise.

 

[Chalked]

Sounds like you have pushed it into the fitting.
It needs to be inside the pipe, for a snug fit, so will need a short piece of soil pipe inserting into the fitting first.

 

[Steve weightman]

From what I can gather you've pushed the pan connector into a stack fitting without a small section of pipe in it if so you need a small amount to go into the fitting and then push the pan connector in

 

[Malcolm Daniels]

Did this, exactly as before! 'Fix' sounded too simple, just a plain short section of pipe, no seals or anything either end of it, only what us already fixed inside the stack & on the concertina connector. (The photo is slightly misleading, that kitchen roll isn't actually as wet as it looks - shadows.)

 

[Burger]

So is there a short piece already in the section between pan connector and soil branch? If so the rubber at the branch could be damaged/perished. If not then you will need a small section of pipe, otherwise there will be too much movement, hence your small drip.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

You did leave the fin/ rubber seal on the pan connector ?

 

[Ben-gee]

Fix is indeed that simple.
The difference being the pan connector will be fitting INSIDE a 110 diameter pipe, whereas now you have it in a socket.
It is now in ~110 space - fins not sealing.
It will be in ~104 space -fins seal, no leak. (as designed to do).

By the way, I would plumb it in rigid pipework anyway if I were doing it - flexis are rubbish and should not be sold in my opinion.

 

[Malcolm Daniels]

No short piece between the pan connector & the soil branch. That's sounding like it's the problem.

Yes, did leave fins (good word to describe those) on the pan connector. Seems like advice to put a section of plain 4" pipe, pushing 1 end into soil stack & pushing pan concertina connector into the other end (the fins of the concertina forming the seal).

All been a big learning curve, help here is much appreciated (personally, I'd rather have employed a plumber - but none were interested!).

 

[Malcolm Daniels]

Thank you all very much. Explanation very clear, no wonder it slid into the soil pipe so easily (had not been so easy a week or so ago when doing the same task in a different toilet - which was 104 going into 104 - & took a lot more 'welly' & fairy liquid). Job done & doesn't seem to be leaking. Cheers.

 

[Rob Foster]

Thank you all very much. Explanation very clear, no wonder it slid into the soil pipe so easily (had not been so easy a week or so ago when doing the same task in a different toilet - which was 104 going into 104 - & took a lot more 'welly' & fairy liquid). Job done & doesn't seem to be leaking. Cheers.

Sorry to burst your bubble but there are so many reasons why flexi soil connectors are not fit for purpose. They are an easy fix which no professional would ever use. Thin walled, un sanitary just to begin, centralheatking

 

[Malcolm Daniels]

Spoke too soon once we'd fitted the short piece between the soil & connector...…….tested flushing a few times now, BUT though not what you would call "dripping", there is still evidence of small bits of water when I run a tissue round the bottom part of the rim where the short piece is pushed into the stack. It's in as far as it will fit & the two pieces are level, from earlier advice here it's now sounding like the rubber seal in the stack is compromised. Not sure what 'fix' there will be for that - it runs behind the wall of our shower into the corner where the 'down' section is housed.

Very good points Rob, wish it was now our only thing to consider. But I'd have to say, we've only been replacing like for like - our en suite and our hall loo (both had Geberit cisterns developing identical leak from flush pipe at the same time ) were installed 6/7 years ago by 2 separate, qualified, plumbers! Clearly the 2nd one made 2 poor choices, the flexi connector & no short section between it & the stack!

 

[Malcolm Daniels]

Could a possible solution be to change the short section of plain pipe I've inserted, for a shortened section of this, inserting the 'fins' end right into the soil stack (so the fins will slide through the wider part of the stack & push into its narrower part, forming a seal).

 

[ShaunCorbs]

No

 

[Burger]

The soil pipe looks like push fit to me, so if you’re able to removewhat looks like an elbow, then you could replace that. If you’re able to, take a photo of where the connection is, might be able to advise better.

 

[Ben-gee]

Cut back the grey pipe just past the “bulge” and solvent weld a straight socket . Then work from there in rigid pipe and bin the flexi?

 

[Malcolm Daniels]

Photos show light grey soil stack, it is straight run of probably 5' & goes behind fitted cupboards & shower wall to the down pipe (can't see or access that), with the slightly wider end & a rubber seal inside.
Darker grey section is the plain ended pipe piece that we've just put in to get a better seal.
The white bit is the concertina connection. That definitely isn't leaking at the joint. For sure it's 'weeping' where the light & dark grey pipes join, assume the rubber seal in the soil stack end isn't sealing efficiently?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

You can cut the collar off and fit a 110mm push fit coupling

 

[Steve weightman]

You've done well to push the pan connector in that far are you sure the fins are on or the fins aren't suitable enough some tend to be fairly flat

 

[Malcolm Daniels]

Where the connector goes in to the dark grey small section the fins have a good seal, no leaking. It's where the dark grey small section of pipe pushes into the 'stack' that's leaking, though the rubber 'washer' inside the stack looks OK, can only think it must be knackered, as suggested in an earlier response.

My favourite plumber/tradesperson is coming tonight. He'd have been doing the whole job if he wasn't in such high demand! It's a sympathy rescue - I'm fine with that!

Thank you everyone for your time & assistance.

 

[Malcolm Daniels]

Plumber dismantled the 3 parts & whipped out the soil stack rubber (blimey, didn't even know it came out), wasn't sure if one from a different piece of stack would fit, but happy that it did because when he got it in it didn't want to come back out! (We had the top part from the 1 metre piece we had to buy to cut off the small inserted section. So he used the rubber from that.)

Said the inserted section was too long & cut it in half. 30 minutes with 15 of chat, job done. Charge £......nothing. (We foisted a fair £ amount on him anyway.) His help invaluable, along with everyone else on here. Thanks very much.