Contractor not coughing up.....

[island fling]

Good evening...

As the post states.

I am going through paperwork before work begins again tomorrow AM.

I have an unpaid job, it is from a very large heating contractor, they do work for the government.

I will keep the story as short as possible as it drags on a bit, it will be a long post so bare with me please.

I got a call one afternoon, lady on the phone asked me to attend an urgent call out for a boiler not running in an elderly ladies home.
I accepted but asked that she emailed the office & one of us would attend asap, likely around 3PM.

I got down to the job (around 30 miles away) to find that there was a brand new boiler & the reason for the boiler breakdown was due to a leak onto the circulation pump that had tripped the fuse board.
There was a total of 8 leak, oil flexible hose on the outside of the casing, fire valve & filter on the inside right beside the boiler & the condensate went into a condensate pump & the pipework that should have gone into a drain stopped at the top of the boiler & was dripping onto the boiler, system was now pressurised with expansion vessels but not on the hot water side but it was to the heating side so the hot water was stone cold.
They also hadn't done a system flush before fitting the new boiler even though it is always in the manufacturers instructions, flue was leaking from the slate piece on the roof.

So......I called the lady in the office (didn't have email access) & explained the ISSUES to which she replied "please do whatever it takes to rectify the issues, keeping our clients happy is priority."
I continued with my work rectifying the many leaks, oil line to OFTEC standards, drilling the condensate pipe to the outside into a drain, fully pumping the hot water & heating system on an S plan, got an electrican to wire it in as they had just put the boiler & pump onto plug tops with 13amp fuses & finally got the roof leak sorted by a roofer that was living local & happy to help that evening.

I got the system running to MFI & regulation by 11 PM so headed home.
I emailed the company ( wish i could publish thier name!) explaining the system was up & running with a detailed explanation of what had been done.
I also presented them with my invoice which they are refusing to pay, saying i worked without their permission. I then got ahold of the MD who shouted abuse down the phone asking if I was on drugs in the way i slagged off his employees to office staff.
Only a week later i got called from an elderly lady around 15 miles from me that said she had an issue with her boiler 'rattling' & heating hadn't been working since the evening before.
I went straight over to find this same company carried out the work in this property too.
Thery had manually opened the hot water & heating motorised valve on then advised that she used the TRV to regulate heat within rooms. The motorised valves were not even wired in & just a fused spur to the boiler. The issue for the 'rattling' was that the heating motorised valve (I assume) had been knocked while the lady was in the boiler room getting a jacket or something & only left the boiler heating the hot water, it was boiling! All the plywood on the roof was dripping with condensation when i went into the loft.

So I am now owed £1943.23 inc vat from this chancing company who clearly don't have a clue!
I have tried debt collection agencies who have no luck.....

My question is should I take this to a small claims court? Will I have to travel the 300 miles down to the court hearing as I think I have to travel to the defendant.
Should I report them to trading standard too? I have loads of pictures & my emails to the company.
I also forgot to mention the first house had an issue for 5 days but they company never returned the ladies phone calls. She also had lights & sockets not working as the pump had tripped the power & it was on the same board as one end of the house.

Sorry for the essay, I hope it all reads okay & I have covered everything.

Kind regards,
Island Fling

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Granted eco works you will find the company closes its doors soon

TBH good luck trying to get your money back only think I can suggest is a debt recovery ferm or court

 

[Murdoch]

Taking action through the small claims court doesn't mean you have to attend court..........

 

[SimonG]

I take it these where 'government grant' installs by a bodgit and scarper company.

Feel your pain and difficult to prove a case with it being he said she said imho.

Was the other company oftec and did you take any before and after photos?

 

[island fling]

Granted eco works you will find the company closes its doors soon

TBH good luck trying to get your money back only think I can suggest is a debt recovery firm or court

Thanks Shaun, I have tried debt collection & they (contractor) is saying it was unauthorised works. I was thinking the might close down soon but they have been trading for 7 years now & have limited companies all over Scotland & offices in London now too. I tracked down (on facebook) the MD range rover in a picture so was planning to put a writ onto his it but im sure it will probably be financed to the hilt.

 

[island fling]

I take it these where 'government grant' installs by a bodgit and scarper company.

Feel your pain and difficult to prove a case with it being he said she said imho.

Was the other company oftec and did you take any before and after photos?

Yes & no i guess, company has been trading 7 years or more so maybe they will hang about as they have turnover of around 20 million.

I have loads of photos, also both customer said they would do anything they can to help. I just didn't want to ask yet as they are both 80 + years old. I am worried the MD who is a bully would then bully them. I would rather loose the money than have that.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Thanks Shaun, I have tried debt collection & they (contractor) is saying it was unauthorised works. I was thinking the might close down soon but they have been trading for 7 years now & have limited companies all over Scotland & offices in London now too. I tracked down (on facebook) the MD range rover in a picture so was planning to put a writ onto his it but im sure it will probably be financed to the hilt.

I know it's not the best but i it was me I would of reported to oftec not that they would of done much

But I wouldn't of done 2k of work I would of said get the install company out

I know it's not the women's fault but there's nothing you can do

 

[island fling]

I know it's not the best but i it was me I would of reported to oftec not that they would of done much

But I wouldn't of done 2k of work I would of said get the install company out

I know it's not the women's fault but there's nothing you can do

Yeah it will maybe just have to go down as a tough lesson. I have now started to provide estimates for any works over £500 & take deposits off new customers if there is any materials involved.

 

[island fling]

Taking action through the small claims court doesn't mean you have to attend court....

Thats great to know, I might do one of them online & see what happens. I may scare them into paying, at the end of the day nobody wants their credit score ruined.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yeah it will maybe just have to go down as a tough lesson. I have now started to provide estimates for any works over £500 & take deposits off new customers if there is any materials involved.

Estimates for any works other than small jobs get everything in writing eg under 200

 

[Murdoch]

Thats great to know, I might do one of them online & see what happens. I may scare them into paying, at the end of the day nobody wants their credit score ruined.

Your main problem will be convincing the court that you were given the verbal go ahead ...... because the other party simply has to claim they didn’t give you the go ahead.

 

[Welder]

I.F.

Unfortunately I concur with the others in that you have learned an awful life lesson - the bigger the co. the bigger the ar5se. The brilliant news is that it could have been so much worse!

This scenario is just one of the reasons I record ALL of my phone calls automatically. It is fully legal and beyond valuable.

Personally, I'm not even sure I'd go down the small claims route as you'll be throwing good money after bad. If you have the MD's details just bide your time cos sweet revenge is best served stone cold...

If you decide to pull away, wait a few weeks and just bob back and post the name and nothing else. We will then know too.

Focus on the positives that 2019 will bring a person of your integrity bud. Forget the little sh1te and move on.

 

[Best]

I also agree you need to look at it from a legal viewpoint, - Was the work requested by the company?
However, you might still have a chance, so personally I would try the Small Claims Court. Nothing to lose other than time.

 

[Chuck]

Your main problem will be convincing the court that you were given the verbal go ahead .. because the other party simply has to claim they didn’t give you the go ahead.

True, but these cases are decided 'on the balance of probability' (at least in England, not sure about Scotland). This boils down to who the judge believes on the day.

Another approach is to see if you can get Watchdog interested:

BBC One - Watchdog - Send your story to Watchdog

The story has several of the qualities they look for.

 

[snowhead]

So going back to the beginning, you must have been given authority and presumably the (unwritten but assumed) promise of payment for the original first visit?
Did they email as you asked?

They clearly owe you some money.

They aren't going to be able to deny having contacted you otherwise you wouldn't have coincidentally happened across one of their customers, but more importantly they wouldn't be denying unauthorised work.

Re invoice them for the visit and investigation or whatever they originally asked you to do.

If they refuse payment, go to small claims for that.

 

[SimonG]

A customer I did work for had hassle with Wickes for his bathroom and kitchen. He was a high level accountant. Threatened them with a winding up petition/order. Don't actually know what's involved but certainly made Wickes jump to it.

 

[Pickwickpick]

A customer I did work for had hassle with Wickes for his bathroom and kitchen. He was a high level accountant. Threatened them with a winding up petition/order. Don't actually know what's involved but certainly made Wickes jump to it.

Yep you can apply to the courts to make someone or a company bankrupt (won't work in this case as debt has to be more than £5k). From my days as an auditor I knew a couple of large companies that dealt with disputes this way, they'd ignore all communications unless the firm they were in a dispute with petitioned the courts for bankruptcy and only then would they cough up!

 

[SimonG]

Yep you can apply to the courts to make someone or a company bankrupt (won't work in this case as debt has to be more than £5k). From my days as an auditor I knew a couple of large companies that dealt with disputes this way, they'd ignore all communications unless the firm they were in a dispute with petitioned the courts for bankruptcy and only then would they cough up!

Thanks for that. The only thing that sticks in my mind about it was Wickes turned up on site within a couple of days.

 

[gmartine]

@Chuck

Watchdog won't be interested in a tradesman getting screwed unless it's part of a larger action/investigation concerning a rogue company screwing over joe public as well.

 

[Chuck]

@Chuck
Watchdog won't be interested in a tradesman getting screwed unless it's part of a larger action/investigation concerning a rogue company screwing over joe public as well.

Of course. Whether they'll follow up depends whether there have been other reports about the same company. In this case the OP has already come across one 'elderly lady' who was ripped off by the same company so there's a good chance there will be more.

Anyway, the OP has already typed up the story so posting it to Watchdog is (a) free and (b) will take very little time. It also gives one a satisfying feeling that you have 'done something' beyond writing it off to experience. All the other remedies are either time consuming or costly. AFAIK, a winding-up petition costs about £2k just to register it with the court, for example.

Island Fling has my sympathy but every small business seems to have their own version of this story. Some big company or landlord calls with an 'emergency' gives verbal instructions to 'do whatever it takes and send us your invoice'. Then, when the invoice arrives they claim they only wanted you to provide an estimate not do the work. The first rule is do not to leave home until they've sent you a purchase order (big company) or confirmed the work order by email and paid a deposit by credit card (small company). The second rule is that every job carries a risk of non-payment. With new customers this risk is big, with long-standing relationships it is small, but it is *never* zero.

 

[Chuck]

(won't work in this case as debt has to be more than £5k).

£750 these days AIUI. But probably not worth doing due to costs unless the debt is much larger.

 

[Pickwickpick]

£750 these days AIUI. But probably not worth doing due to costs unless the debt is much larger.

£750 is the minimum debt to bring a case in the small claims court, for bankruptcy its definitely got to a be a debt greater than £5k:

How to present a petition

1. Prove you’re owed at least £5,000 or a share of debts totalling at least £5,000.
   
   
2. Check for other bankruptcy petitions against the person who owes you money (the ‘debtor’).
   
   
3. Fill in the forms and deliver them to the court.

Apply to bankrupt someone who owes you money

A threat of bankruptcy carries a hell of a lot more weight than a small claims court case, so sometimes its the best threat/action to take, but its not cheap you have to front approx £1.2k

 

[island fling]

I.F.

Unfortunately I concur with the others in that you have learned an awful life lesson - the bigger the co. the bigger the ar5se. The brilliant news is that it could have been so much worse!

This scenario is just one of the reasons I record ALL of my phone calls automatically. It is fully legal and beyond valuable.

Personally, I'm not even sure I'd go down the small claims route as you'll be throwing good money after bad. If you have the MD's details just bide your time cos sweet revenge is best served stone cold...

If you decide to pull away, wait a few weeks and just bob back and post the name and nothing else. We will then know too.

Focus on the positives that 2019 will bring a person of your integrity bud. Forget the little sh1te and move on.

Thank you so much, this post has already allowed me to move on in my own head. The plus side that has come off this is I now have 2 new customers & hopefully their family & friends too. This shoddy companies loss has been my gain in the long run im sure.

All the best for your 2019 too, Yorkshire Dave & others.

 

[island fling]

Thanks to everyone that has posted, I get the general idea of where to go now.
I have 4 employees on the tools & 1 employee in the office so if there is any 'slack' days for the office I might just get him to follow this through. I tried calling the MD on my mobile for around a week because he would not return emails or calls at his office. I got his mobile number in a back handed way (but got it) then he took my call, claimed I was on drugs to call him & ask for money & said he wouldn't let a penny drop into my account. For this reason I want to see him suffer but I may just let karma do that..... I will fill anyone in with details of decisions/progress over the coming weeks.

Cheers all.

 

[Chuck]

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