CORGI & Lead Solder

[newby]

Dear Corgi People

I have just had a new boiler fitted - the joints to the boiler are all soldered and look different to my other joints - the solder appears grey almost black, compared with the shiny joints elsewhere. Are these possibly lead solder based? Is this allowed?, given that the cold supply has this on, and the DHW output is used in the kitchen to wash pasta for example.

Thanks for any help...

 

[sonray ltd]

it can't be used on potable water ie cold mains etc but can still be used on heating pipework

 

[newby]

1) does this mean that the cold inlet & DHW out from the boiler should not be soldered with lead?

2) Also does my description sound like lead solder?

3) Why still use lead solder anyway? I understand it's easier to solder, lower temperatures and more workable - but once you've got the knack of lead-free soldering it's no big deal..


Cheers

 

[sonray ltd]

1, yes
2, poss but you can get a dirty looking joint by using a wet cloth when
you've soldered.
3, lead solder is cheaper i still use both.

 

[newby]

Thanks for reply. Only thing I can think to add is, do you ever mix up the solder by mistake?

The thought of lead in my drinking water gives me the heebie-jeebies...especially with growing kids in the house

 

[NickH]

The thought of lead in my drinking water gives me the heebie-jeebies...especially with growing kids in the house

The amount of lead you "might" ingest from a few soldered joints is infinitessimaly small, please dont worry about it. If you have an incoming lead main that would be more of a concern.

 

[newby]

Thanks NickH. I appreciate the sentiment..

For me the thing is that use of lead in plumbing today is so preventable - so even if there is a small chance of health issues I would as a customer want to ensure no lead used anywhere...

What makes me sleep better at night is knowing that any work I've had done is making things better, not introducing fresh lead.

BBC News | SCOTLAND | Lead found in water pipes

PS. I dug up & replaced my incoming lead with MDPE. I know there are issues with MDPE passing through contaminated soil..Very helpful water company bloke came with one of those pneumatic tunnellers....

 

[leakylea]

i hope you realise that there could be quite a length of lead pipe servicing your house, comming off probably a coroded cast iron street main that is full of sludge and rust,carrying water from the resevoir that ducks,fish and humans have used as a toilet don,t worry about the lead in solder,worry about how they keep your water drinkable! with all the added chemicals

 

[newby]

Nope. The street main was replaced around 8 years ago - there is little standing water in the main anyhow. And as I said the pipe servicing my house has been replaced.

I do take the general point that there are others things to be concerned about OR the point that you can't live in a cloud of cotton wool. This doesn't mean though that in the light of better information we reduce all preventable risks, and also replace existing materials if possible if now known to have issues.

The same argument applies to Asbestos, MDF, formaldehyde.

Interestingly I would rather drink dilute urine, than water with high levels of lead - since urine doesn't bio-accumulate...

 

[NickH]

I would rather drink dilute urine, quote]

Doesn't everyone do that anyway or is it just me ?

 

[newby]

LOL

(never used that before...)

 

[leakylea]

i take your point newby
im sure ill die from flux fume inhalation or flux ingested through skin or solvet weld fumes, its a dangerous game this plumbing and you do have a right to be genuinely concerned enen drilling tap holes in a bath is harmful

 

[Deleted member 2053]

Are you sure that the joints have been made using end feed fittings and not solder ring? If they are solder ring then the solder is lead free. I, and a number of other plumbers I know don't even bother to carry leaded solder any more.

 

[Mike Jackson]

I always carry both. Lead for CH and gas, Lead free for potable. With some of the poor quality fittings that we come across the gap filling properties of lead solder are very useful.

Mike

 

[Deleted member 2053]

Well thankfully I don't seem to have had that problem. Saying that of course means that next week..............

 

[Mike Jackson]

I've had straight couplings that you could have used as slip couplings. They were so slack that you could push the pipe past the stop.

Mike

 

[Deleted member 2053]

Mike if I remember your contributions on other pages correctly then you are simply reinforcing my current practice of avoiding Plumbcentre as far as possible!

 

[Mike Jackson]

I haven't got a choice unfortunately. The center brand fittings are supposedly made by yorkshire. We've also had problems recently with the olives in CB rad valves. Instead of crushing onto the pipe they kink.

Mike

 

[marshr02]

thanks for your reply leakylea.

Out of interest - to the posts of plumbers using lead solder. Would you ever consider offering the customer the choice of opting out of lead solder for CH - and taking the risk on fittings that may leak if not in tolerance?

I ask this because surely its ultimately the customers choice? providing safety etc isn't being compromised by their choices?

 

[sonray ltd]

i never met a customer thats that picy.

why would lead solder on the ch pipework bother you ? you don't bath in it do you ?


if customers want to question everything i use or do etc they have the option to do it or go elsewhere.

 

[marshr02]

You're probably right about most customers not being that piccy. Still if given the choice many people would just rather not.

I'm not a tree hugger completely, however, whether I bath in it or not I would rather use a more benign material if possible to reduce the impact I have on our environment.

I know if might seem a bit idealistic, but these are my values (and its my house), and the values of many people as they become more aware of materials being used and alternatives.

 

[sonray ltd]

i agree with you it all helps.
but how does lead solder on ch pipes put a impact on our environment ?

many people if asked don't know the regs on using leaded and unleaded solder.

 

[marshr02]

about 0.000001%. i.e. yes it's miniscule...

sudden thought - don't you all get concerned breathing in lead fumes over the course of a career.....

I used to solder with lead solder on electronics from the age of 8 onwards so I'm in the sam boat...

 

[Mike Jackson]

We're probably at greater risk from the fumes generated by the more aggressive fluxes needed for lead free solder.

 

[sonray ltd]

i worry more about what i come across in lofts and underfloor boards.
like insulation, asbestos, changing toilets, drains etc.