DIY Combi boiler installation

[drm0347]

Up until approx 20 years ago I was CORGI registered for a number of year working mainly on central heating and spending many hours fault finding.

I would like to install my own boiler and necessary rads etc, I understand I must have the gas work installed and tested by a Gas Safe Fitter as I am no longer qualified, I can't see any problems with mounting the boiler myself and coupling it up to the wet system but can't seem to get the legalties regarding mounting the boiler. Feed back I have had says I am not allowed to mount the boiler, Is this just a ploy for an installer to make more money.
So my Qs are
(1) Can I mount the boiler and couple up to heating system providing I have the Gas work installed and commissioned by a Gas Safe Installer.

Can anyone help?

 

[on31ll]

Welcome to the forum and im sure sombody will be along soon who is gsr to answer but i thinks its to do with the person that is gas safe and signing off on the bouler ! Would that person want to sign on their name for your work ? And i no you see it as a simple task but if that boiler was to fall off the wall it would cause damage and possibly endager lives ! Its everybody covering there backs !

 

[Masood]

There is a massive grey area in Gas Safe regulations regarding gas work. In a nutshell, anyone doing gas work MUST be deemed 'competent'.

If they are doing it for any sort of reward, be it money, a bottle of wine or whatever, they must be member of an Approved Persons Scheme, ie Gas Safe Register.

If doing it for no reward, or in your own home, you can deem yourself competent. However, if anything goes wrong, you are liable to prosecution by the HSE. The crux of the question is - A) are you confident that you can do the job competently? I would have thought with your history that the answer would be yes. B) Do you have anyone with the same confidence in you, to test and commission the installation? C) Do you have the front to not have it commissioned at all, deem it competent yourself, and risk voiding warranty, having battles with the local authority and HSE IF and ONLY IF something goes wrong?

That is my understanding of the regs, and I've gone over them with a fine tooth comb with my missus, who is a lawyer, Basically, DIY is fine until something goes wrong.

 

[stevetheplumber]

why not just do as much as you can and get some one registered to fit the boiler id be happy to fit and commision a boiler where everything but the gtas had been run provided the boiler wasnt on the wall that means you can mount the bracke,t cut the flue hole flush the heating fit scale reducer and magna clean then let registered installer mount the boiler do the gas and commision
on site work we often have to fit a boiler without knowing who ran the pipework to the jig we just test the gs before we start

 

[Mike Jackson]

One of the big issues now is not when something goes wrong but when you come to sell up. The solicitors are often asking for the certificate of compliance for building regs notification.

When you sign off a boiler you are also signing off the integrity of the fixings because as said above if the boiler falls off the wall you are held liable. I will only sign off a boiler if I have run the gas, hung it on the wall, fixed the flue and commissioned the boiler. I will happily work alongside someone who wants to run all of the wet side although there is attain of thought that says all boiler connections must be carried out
by an RGI. Personally I think this is bait over the top.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Masood]

id be happy to fit and commision a boiler where everything but the gtas had been run provided the boiler wasnt on the wall

Out of interest Steve, why would you want the boiler not on the wall? You could still run the gas yourself even if it were fitted, no? Just curious, really.

 

[Rickster123]

Because 6 months later when the boiler falls off the wall because the bracket was mounted on half inch screws who's responsible in court??

 

[Masood]

Because 6 months later when the boiler falls off the wall because the bracket was mounted on half inch screws who's responsible in court??

Mmm fair point! Never been asked to commission someone else's work so hadn't thought about that. I guess you can give it a good tug to make sure it's secure but you can never be 100% unless you've done it yourself!

 

[diamondgas]

drm0347 ... You could phone around plumbers in your area and ask them for quotes explaining your position. Flueing regulations have changed quite a bit in 20yrs and condensing boilers are the norm now. Building regs are also tighter regards components that should be installed and the requirement to register the installation.

Get yourself some face to face advise Is there no one from your past you knew that's still at it?

 

[kirkgas]

i would suggest contact a gas safe to sort someone out to do the job before you proceed, you decide on the boiler, suss out the pipework configuration from online MI's fit the rads and pipework back to the boiler position, stop the pipes short of the boiler and rig up a temp connection to fill and test, you can then core the flue hole, get the gas safe guy to fit the bracket, boiler and make the final connection, he will then run and test the gas, im not saying you arent competant to fit the boiler on the wall, but ultimately the gas guy signs it off so he needs to be sure its done properly, ive done this a few times for people and its all down to the primary discussions between the two of you to ensure everyone knows who is doing what, supplying what and what the scedule of works is, and what payment is expected for whatever is done
if you sort a gas guy first im sure a site visit can be arranged to discuss what you want, he will confirm that is acceptable and sort out a few things, as i say i have done it a few times with customer supplying all materials, i have no prob with customer supplying but have it in my T&C's that i am only responsible for work i actually did, and for material i actually supplied, any other work and any other materials are the customers responsibility and any leaks, damage etc etc caused by his work or material will be his responsibility to sort, its ok when things are ok, but say the customer leaves a dodgy fittng that springs a leak after a few weeks, it will be " a guy told me beacuse the water is 80 degress my fitting leaked so its your fault that the water was so hot" etc etc get every eventuality covered in the primary discussion and be fair and honest with the gas guy and the job will get sorted, good luck, haha ive just read that back and its all doom and gloom

 

[drm0347]

Well looks like nothings changed since it was CORGI just the name there must have been money to make somewhere.
I was an installer for many years even fitting for Comet. Been on courses with Vailant etc. But hey ho I will go ahead with the installation as I consider myself to be competant enough, some of the regulations may have changed but these should be evident in the installation instructions.
I may ring round to see if anyone would commission it but will give a wide birth to the Gas Board (less said the better) maybe i'm being unfair but some of the work I came across left a bit to be desired.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my mail it is appreciated

 

[diamondgas]

Good luck drm0347 ... Drop in here for advice any time mate , never feel like you know it all coz that's dangerous! Work safe and you'll be alreet'!

 

[AWheating]

im sure you will find somebody to break the law and sign it off for you. IMO any engineer willing to do this tho is one i would not want working on my own property because if they are willing to ignore one rule they are likely to ignore many.

i would find an engineer first and discuss the work and agree what you will do and what he/she will do. This will keep all parties happy.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Is this in your own home???

Had this conversation with gas safe regarding this and you CAN NOT hang a boiler as its classed as gas works, you cant even take a cover off as classed as gas works

However its different in your own home (if your competant)

 

[barronbathrooms]

I installed my mothers gas boiler while I was still training. I was not gas safe. (corgi or acops at time) If it is your own home and you are competent do as you wish. Why line someone else's pockets?

 

[Bernie2]

I suppose a lot of scare mongering and misinformation is put out by training providers, who want you to spend thousands doing their courses.

It is not that I do not think people should be trained in gas work, its the cost of the training.
And lets be honest DIY gas work in your own home is allowed, but only if your "competent" and its never been taken to court to prove what "competence" is or how you would prove you were.
On an ordinary basis, you would be a bit dangerous and possibly foolish to try doing gas work in your own home if you knew little or nothing about it. But like speeding, you can make as many rules about not doing it as you like but people still do it.
Make gas training cheap and easy to get and you should improve safety.

 

[diamondgas]

A custard asked me for a service safety certificate a year after he'd changed his own boiler. He use to be Corgi registered and did maintenance work in a factory! Flue not supported, no prv discharge pipe fitted and the condensate pipe was hooked up with a flexi pipe terminating under the floorboards!

He thought he knew enough! Granted he didn't leave himself at any risk but he hadn't installed the appliance correctly! I returned after he'd put the faults right, checked it for safety and he got his bit of paper! He asked if I'd register the install for him :lol: I wouldn't

Regards self installation Gas Safety (Installation & use) Regulations 1998 give guidance to competency ... http://www.hseni.gov.uk/l56_safety_in_the_installation_and_use_of_gas_systems_and_appliances.pdf

 

[Orry Clayton]

There is a massive grey area in Gas Safe regulations regarding gas work. In a nutshell, anyone doing gas work MUST be deemed 'competent'.

If they are doing it for any sort of reward, be it money, a bottle of wine or whatever, they must be member of an Approved Persons Scheme, ie Gas Safe Register.

If doing it for no reward, or in your own home, you can deem yourself competent. However, if anything goes wrong, you are liable to prosecution by the HSE. The crux of the question is - A) are you confident that you can do the job competently? I would have thought with your history that the answer would be yes. B) Do you have anyone with the same confidence in you, to test and commission the installation? C) Do you have the front to not have it commissioned at all, deem it competent yourself, and risk voiding warranty, having battles with the local authority and HSE IF and ONLY IF something goes wrong?

That is my understanding of the regs, and I've gone over them with a fine tooth comb with my missus, who is a lawyer, Basically, DIY is fine until something goes wrong.

May be a good idea, to stop saying unregistered "competent" people can do gas work in there own homes and friends/family? Even those who have been registered previously, if they are asking that question, the answer should be a clear no. "Competent" can be taken so many ways, by so many people.

What the regs say, and what should be said. This is just my opinion though.

 

[Millsy 82]

If you install your own boiler and something happens within a year Ie you blow up your house insurance will probably not pay out due to the fact it has not been signed off by a gas safe registered engineer or building control.

When people used to ask me to sign boilers off I used to say ok that will be £2k up front when asked why my reply was you are fitting a boiler you not meant to and stealing the boiler off me using my insurance etc.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I installed my mothers gas boiler while I was still training. I was not gas safe. (corgi or acops at time) If it is your own home and you are competent do as you wish. Why line someone else's pockets?

you do know gas safe are watching this site ????

 

[Millsy 82]

you do know gas safe are watching this site ????

Are they I best go back through all my old posts and delete the incriminating ones

 

[diamondgas]

you do know gas safe are watching this site ????

Least I know my money's going somewhere useful then !!! lol

 

[Masood]

May be a good idea, to stop saying unregistered "competent" people can do gas work in there own homes and friends/family? Even those who have been registered previously, if they are asking that question, the answer should be a clear no. "Competent" can be taken so many ways, by so many people.

What the regs say, and what should be said. This is just my opinion though.

I agree with you, Orry. I would love to say point blank - no, you cannot work on ANY gas appliance unless you're registered. But as long as Joe Public can walk into B&Q and buy boilers, we are fighting a losing battle. If, and only if, boilers and spares are ONLY available to GSR engineers, can we make that statement.

Much as you or I would like it to be otherwise, the regs require only "competence", and provide no definition of what that actually means. Lying about it isn't going to help - there are too many sources of info out there to be able to pretend that there is any law against people doing their own gas work.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I agree with you, Orry. I would love to say point blank - no, you cannot work on ANY gas appliance unless you're registered. But as long as Joe Public can walk into B&Q and buy boilers, we are fighting a losing battle. If, and only if, boilers and spares are ONLY available to GSR engineers, can we make that statement.

Much as you or I would like it to be otherwise, the regs require only "competence", and provide no definition of what that actually means. Lying about it isn't going to help - there are too many sources of info out there to be able to pretend that there is any law against people doing their own gas work.

i can sleep safe , and I dont care how other people get on with there sleep

 

[home123456]

No no and no