domestic/commercial gas?

[PlumbingSucks]

When does domestic gas become commercial gas? I know its boilers up to 70kw. seem to remember there is a pipesize limit used to be <28mm but think it might be <35mm now. and a meter size limit. Can anyone clarify for me?

 

[kirkgas]

domestic is up to 70kw appliance, or pipework up to 35mm as long as it contains a total installation volume of less than 0.035m3, a U16 meter can be used depending on overall volume not exceeding 0.035m3

 

[Reg Man]

Just to clarify 70kW input. Someone just caught out on that one in something i've been dealing with.

 

[tamz]

Usually if the appliance is classed as commercial by the manu then even if it is say a vaillant ecotec 46, as the boiler is classed as commercial it comes under commercial tickets.
On the other hand if you cascade 2 x 30cdi's in an office block that would probably come under domestic as they are domestic appliances.

My understanding but maybe Kirk or Reg can clarify.

 

[kirkgas]

Usually if the appliance is classed as commercial by the manu then even if it is say a vaillant ecotec 46, as the boiler is classed as commercial it comes under commercial tickets.
On the other hand if you cascade 2 x 30cdi's in an office block that would probably come under domestic as they are domestic appliances.

My understanding but maybe Kirk or Reg can clarify.

I would bow to your superior (ie older haha) experience, you are quite right, not for the first time, i ommitted this from my post to obviously allow you to step in and get the glory AGAIN!!
the appliance category decides what the install is, due to the testing req'd, as well as what i quoted, re domestic boilers in an office block, my interpretation of the regs say it is classed as domestic if the area it is used in is classed as a domestic area within commercial, ie emplyee sleeping areas, or perhaps bothy within a factory, there are some examples in the gas regs, (BUT REMEMBER TO CHECK THE APPLIANCE AS WELL, AS SOME ARE CLASSED AS COMMERCIAL BY THE MANUFACTURER, SO OBVIOUSLY THEY NEED TO BE TREATED AS COMMERCIAL

 

[Reg Man]

Interesting point. I do not think it is very clear. Lets throw some examples: I have 3 x 30kW vaillant eco tecs in a boiler plant room or linked into heating a football club. Can I work on them with CCN1 & CEN1? Answer no. Because this is classed as a comercial premises and the total input on the 3 boilers is above 70kW, I will need a commerical industrial ticket. Why? the Boiler plant room has to comply with IGE/UP/10 and BS6644, did'nt cover that on CEN1 or core domestic. So what if I fit the same 3 boiler individualy around the footbal club, 1 does the away team dressing room, 1 does the home team dressing room, the other does the club house. Can I work on them now? Yes you can. So now I am going to fit a Falcon dominator oven in the clubs Kitchen, Can I do it, I have CCN1 & CKR1? No. Because I need to know the requirements of BS6173 HSE sheet 10 and a few others. So I decide that I will go home and take my brand new domestic cooker and fit it up the club. Can I do this? No if the kitchen is used as a catering establishment. Yes if it is not. So I now take my falcon oven home and fit it in my house. Can I do this? No. because the MI for the cooker requires it to be installed in accordance with the catering standards. Welcome any comments!

 

[kirkgas]

Interesting point. I do not think it is very clear. Lets throw some examples: I have 3 x 30kW vaillant eco tecs in a boiler plant room or linked into heating a football club. Can I work on them with CCN1 & CEN1? Answer no. Because this is classed as a comercial premises and the total input on the 3 boilers is above 70kW, I will need a commerical industrial ticket. Why? the Boiler plant room has to comply with IGE/UP/10 and BS6644, did'nt cover that on CEN1 or core domestic. So what if I fit the same 3 boiler individualy around the footbal club, 1 does the away team dressing room, 1 does the home team dressing room, the other does the club house. Can I work on them now? Yes you can. So now I am going to fit a Falcon dominator oven in the clubs Kitchen, Can I do it, I have CCN1 & CKR1? No. Because I need to know the requirements of BS6173 HSE sheet 10 and a few others. So I decide that I will go home and take my brand new domestic cooker and fit it up the club. Can I do this? No if the kitchen is used as a catering establishment. Yes if it is not. So I now take my falcon oven home and fit it in my house. Can I do this? No. because the MI for the cooker requires it to be installed in accordance with the catering standards. Welcome any comments!

i disagree with you in that i think it is very clear to those of us who know what we are doing, and in this post you clearly do know what you are doing/talking about, so as long as we know the regs and out qualifications we will be fine

 

[Reg Man]

Just some find quite a few people get a little confused or try to manipulate the suituation to justify why they worked on a job. Had someone work on a Concord CXA 70, they said they thought it ok because its 70kW, oops. 70kw output 84.5kW input.

 

[tamz]

I agree it can be a bit confusing at times but a few good points have been raised here which should help anyone to decide. If in doubt ASK.

 

[meashewgas]

I've asked g.s.r. and was told that 70kw is on the whole installation not just one appliance.
I.e. Total of all appliances in the premises. So that 2x 30 kw boilers in a cascade and a 12kw range cooker would take you over the limit.
Also an appliance in a commercial settings, restaurant, deli etc is classed as commercial even if below 70 kw!

 

[Rickster123]

It was six years ago. They've got solar and and air source fitted now so everyone's happy.