Domestic Plumbing NVQ Level 2&3

[LukeBrittle]

First of all, an appology if this thread is in the wrong area (new to the site).

I am currently studying Domestic plumbing NVQ Level 2&3 via. city & guilds. I have seen some negative feedback regarding the course and how by the end of it I will be no better off as people won't look at me twice.

I am studying at home(as it suits me) and then eventually going away for a week at a time to do the practical side of it. I am spending around £6k to get these qualifications & now after seeing what people are writing, i feel that i am wasting my time & money. I am 23 and have a passion for plumbing & want to become a trustworthy plumber.

Is this course going to be useless to me & what can I do to turn things around? suggestions will be appreciated incredibly. If anybody can call me even & offer advice I will be forever greatful.

Kind Regards

 

[Simon F]

Hello Luke, if you want to make it work then go for it, but you need to be determined and motivated.
not sure about the studying from home, limited opportunity for feedback/interaction there.
6k is a lot to pay, college would be cheaper and I think better.
hope it works for you.

 

[galaxy_plumbing]

what company do you pay 6k? its a lot of money Luke, college would be much better. Btw, welcome to the forum

 

[chris watkins]

How many more times will we see post like this? (& I do feel for you Luke) but you can not be doing an NVQ what ever you have been sold, you have to be working as a trainee plumber to do the onsite assessments.
Why do you think the industry does not recognise the college only (Tech Cert 6129 or the new 6035) ??? because you can not learn plumbing in a college & certainly not from a home study pack, why would you ever think that you could ?? The only thing you can do is get a job in plumbing which as you already know is very very difficult at the moment.

All I can do is wish you good luck Luke & hope to god that this serves as a warning to anybody else who has 6K to spend.

 

[REDSAW]

you need to contact me via private message

 

[LukeBrittle]

you need to contact me via private message

Sent you a message mate.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Remember the talk about skills shortages?

According to figures from the Construction Skills Network, 160,000 construction workers are currently claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance at a cost of almost £1 billion a year to the Treasury. Growth campaign seeks meeting with chancellor | News | Heating and Ventilation News

Its difficult to know who to listen to, when educational institutions are 'leading you up the garden path' with regard to training.

Cut and run on this one, and find a career that hasn't been totally 'spoiled' like plumbing has.

 

[REDSAW]

Sent you a message mate.

nope!
try sending again

 

[fuzzy]

Remember the talk about skills shortages?



Its difficult to know who to listen to, when educational institutions are 'leading you up the garden path' with regard to training.

Cut and run on this one, and find a career that hasn't been totally 'spoiled' like plumbing has.

very unfair clanger, although i agree there are some who are in education and training for the wrong reasons most centres and peoples enter this for the right reasons and will give advice accordingly

people reading this, dont be put off from negative reviews, there are always stories of poor provision and advice but we must keep it all in perspective.

I often read reviews on holidays and hotels i have booked, only to see some bad ones that make me wary, more often than not my experience is totally different. Its horses for courses people

 

[Deleted member 25704]

very unfair clanger, although i agree there are some who are in education and training for the wrong reasons most centres and peoples enter this for the right reasons and will give advice accordingly

people reading this, dont be put off from negative reviews, there are always stories of poor provision and advice but we must keep it all in perspective.

I often read reviews on holidays and hotels i have booked, only to see some bad ones that make me wary, more often than not my experience is totally different. Its horses for courses people

My comments were not about 'provision' they were about chances of employment on graduation, given that many courses are marketed on 'skill shortages'. I have presented evidence that 160,000 experienced, qualified construction workers are on job seekers allowance and you don't seem to think that has any meaning for people wanting to embark on a 'new' career in that sector.

The advice I give, is reasoned, supported by evidence and meant with good will.

I don't blame guys like you fuzzy, I believe you are well intentioned - we are all products of they system we produce and sometimes we can't see our part in reproducing a culture that may disadvantage a majority cohort, with advantages only realised by the few.

However, the reality of the situation is that 60% of businesses fail in the first year, and 80% fail in the first three years. So we will find out in the next year or so, whether those firms setting up around 2008/2009 after the 'crunch' are still doing as well you think they are.

 

[chris watkins]

It's not so much the training that we are trying to advice people off, fuzzy, it's the outcome or expectations of what it will provide them, after completing it, as you well know.
To continue to encourage them into training knowing it is there expectation to gain employment in an industry which is totally & absolutely satiated, is doing them & the industry a great disservice & some may say is akin to those who sell the poor quality home study course's that the OP is on.

IMHO vested interests should choose there comments very carefully.

 

[fuzzy]

With all due respect clanger you said "educational establishments are leading you up the garden path"
That doesnt seem balanced to me, this statement suggests all colleges and private training establishments lie.

Chris, I am all for people making an informed decision. If they want to train they can as long as they do so knowing the facts, this is something i have strongly supported continually on here for a long time as all can see.

"vested interests should choose there (their?) comments carefully"

You appear to be alluding that my advice is not one of balance and that I have something to gain from my views. This is certainly not the case and does nothing to help the advice of others.

If you both truly do not wish to put people off training you should make this clear as it reads that you do

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Fuzzy

I said 'educational institutions', which consist of colleges, training providers, training establishments, awarding bodies, certification bodies, sector skills councils and even representative organisations in the BSE sector. I believe they are 'leading people up the garden path' in terms of their self interest, and disregard for the milieu which they are exposing their students to. I used the term 'leading them up the garden path' because it implies a 'legitimate route', there is nothing illegal here to my knowledge, but can we please consider the ethics of the situation.

'Institutions' are different to the 'people' that work in them, and people who work in institutions often have to work towards a common goal and common philosophy - this is why I don't blame fuzzy or others that work on the coal face of training - these people are just doing their jobs.

However, if we ever want to progress, and develop a really good system of 'training' then we need to start engaging critically with what we have, and evaluating the good bits and those that are questionable - and I think that people like fuzzy are the ones who can do this, because they want the best for their students.

 

[fuzzy]

Fuzzy

I said 'educational institutions', which consist of colleges, training providers, training establishments, awarding bodies, certification bodies, sector skills councils and even representative organisations in the BSE sector. I believe they are 'leading people up the garden path' in terms of their self interest, and disregard for the milieu which they are exposing their students to. I used the term 'leading them up the garden path' because it implies a 'legitimate route', there is nothing illegal here to my knowledge, but can we please consider the ethics of the situation.

'Institutions' are different to the 'people' that work in them, and people who work in institutions often have to work towards a common goal and common philosophy - this is why I don't blame fuzzy or others that work on the coal face of training - these people are just doing their jobs.

However, if we ever want to progress, and develop a really good system of 'training' then we need to start engaging critically with what we have, and evaluating the good bits and those that are questionable - and I think that people like fuzzy are the ones who can do this, because they want the best for their students.

But your claiming it all self interests clanger, this suggests anyone offering, writing or designing a qualification only does it for money. Schools, Colleges, awarding organisations have been around for many years, have their only interests since the beginning of education been self interest? Obviously not.

For me your views are extreme and certainly not balanced. I understand where you are coming from but the way you make your point puts a very very dark cloud over all things educational and does not give any credit to the great value education and all establishments have had over many people over a long, long time.

There may be some larger agendas that require consideration and evaluation but suggesting education is leading people up the garden path is certainly not helpful.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Sorry for the dark post fuzzy and I appreciate your dialogue.

The meaning of my previous post was to assure you that I don't think you are in it just for the money, but some institutions need to be for different reasons.

I meant that the ethos of insitutions, which exist in a capitalist economy, might have interests which are influenced by profit. Educational establishments are now corporate enterprises, with Universities also involved with the 'bums on seats' and 'dash for cash' ethos, so it is not just about plumbing training.

Something has happened to education and training over the last two or three decades and some refer to this as 'marketisation' or 'commodification' which means money has to be made, to ensure the productive existence of the institution. This brings new meanings to 'education' which were not there in the past.

The 'positive' aspects of this, are that tens of thousands of people wanting to enter an occupational area without the need for doing an apprenticeship, now have the opportunity to do so. But we don't know how these people have got on, its too early to know the consequences of this at the moment.

 

[chris watkins]

The 'positive' aspects of this, are that tens of thousands of people wanting to enter an occupational area without the need for doing an apprenticeship, now have the opportunity to do so. But we don't know how these people have got on, its too early to know the consequences of this at the moment.

Sorry guys haven't read read right through your posts back & forth but could not resist your last bit Clanger IMHO I think we absolutely know what the consequences are, if you two were still out there working it is quite clear, on a daily basses, the standards are now on the floor, plumbers have such a bad name because of these poorly trained, inexperienced people running around calling themselves by that name.
Have a look out in the real world !!!

 

[Gray0689]

Sorry guys haven't read read right through your posts back & forth but could not resist your last bit Clanger IMHO I think we absolutely know what the consequences are, if you two were still out there working it is quite clear, on a daily basses, the standards are now on the floor, plumbers have such a bad name because of these poorly trained, inexperienced people running around calling themselves by that name.
Have a look out in the real world !!!

I totally agree there chris

 

[fuzzy]

Sorry for the dark post fuzzy and I appreciate your dialogue.

The meaning of my previous post was to assure you that I don't think you are in it just for the money, but some institutions need to be for different reasons.

I meant that the ethos of insitutions, which exist in a capitalist economy, might have interests which are influenced by profit. Educational establishments are now corporate enterprises, with Universities also involved with the 'bums on seats' and 'dash for cash' ethos, so it is not just about plumbing training.

Something has happened to education and training over the last two or three decades and some refer to this as 'marketisation' or 'commodification' which means money has to be made, to ensure the productive existence of the institution. This brings new meanings to 'education' which were not there in the past.

The 'positive' aspects of this, are that tens of thousands of people wanting to enter an occupational area without the need for doing an apprenticeship, now have the opportunity to do so. But we don't know how these people have got on, its too early to know the consequences of this at the moment.

but it isnt just money clanger, uni's, schools and colleges are accountable by their success rates. They are or can be quite particular over who they allow onto the course, and in turn get called elitist! If they opned the door to everyone they would be criticized for wasting public money. Of course if you pay yourself the institution are not bothered as you dont affect statistics as its not publicly funded.

And think the educational situation isnt perfect but i think its pretty good, its all too easy to just say its doomed and they only do it for the money

as previously said, there may be some bigger issues that need addressing but in the mean time i will defend peoples right to education if they want it, and their right to correct, balanced and informative information

 

[fuzzy]

Sorry guys haven't read read right through your posts back & forth but could not resist your last bit Clanger IMHO I think we absolutely know what the consequences are, if you two were still out there working it is quite clear, on a daily basses, the standards are now on the floor, plumbers have such a bad name because of these poorly trained, inexperienced people running around calling themselves by that name.
Have a look out in the real world !!!

i agree there are some terrible cases of poor workmanship and many people with minimal training advertising their selves as plumbers.

This obviously isnt good but again i do not solely blame the training providers. College/centre training is only part of a persons development into being fully qualified. Why do people think that after a full time plumbing course they will be sufficiently skilled to carry out a whole manner of plumbing jobs?

Further more I have witnessed employers who blame the course for being rubbish because theyve taken somebody on with just a full time course under their belt and no experience. Why would they think that? why would they blame the college? Its totally madness.
It is not the fault of the course/qualification, the course is fine, its the fault of people wrongly claiming it is something it isnt, employers expecting it to provide skills it simply cannot do.

The course or provider should not be blamed for something they deliver not doing something it claims not to do. The people who wrongly represent these courses, wrongly expect them to do something they shouldnt who are at fault.

In my opinion it is cowardly way out to blame the qual/provider as this is the easy way out. Tackle the people who are at fault and educate employers on what to expect on each course.