domestic to commercial changeover

[mike_s]

anybody done this? was it worth it? considering doing so as have worked recently in commercial premises on boilers up to 70 kw and 19 kw gas fired cylinders. I checked with gas safe and the manufacturers before and these were within my domestic scope qualifications.
However I would like to expand on my commercial experience and the scope of our business or maybe in the future land a job in the commercial gas industry.
Any feedback or tips would be appreciated.

 

[tamz]

It is quite hard to get any decent work if you don't know anyone. Most of the good stuff is tied up to fm companies but there are always some decent bits to grab. Best way in is if you can sub to someone but sound it out before you comit.

Most of the other stuff on offer is the usual badly maintained stuff that is never touched until it is forced upon them.

 

[diamondgas]

I'd agree with Tamz. I got in with a guy doing some domestic work for him and helping with commercial. Ended up going to a few repairs on my own so thought I'd better get the tickets to be legit!!! Cost just on £1k and a week off the tools training and assessment. Have only done one private commercial so far, they got my details off gas safe website. I don't advertise however or actively seek work but am aware of the limited amount of work out there! Catering might give more avenue as it covers a lot more smaller business, restaurants, takeaways and the like?

 

[mike_s]

yes I live in a seaside resort with lots of restaurants and hotels so I also think the catering quals could be more useful however I wanted to start off with maintenance as I've never installed commercial pipework and its the heating and hot water systems which are more likely to be maintained!
I'll have to price it up with the catering too and do some research on what kind of companies get the commercial heating and catering work.
I also have a mate with all his commercial heating and pipework quals but he only worked on it for less than a year for a commercial maintenance firm so doesn't fancy taking the work on his own.
Another mate says he could possibly get me commercial experience off a friend of his too so I'll have to look into it.
Cheers for replys, just a shame its so expensive to maintain all these acs assessments!

 

[Ryster]

Thought I would chuck my two pence worth in, as I feel Im in a good position to answer to this post.

Im in the minority as I did my apprenticeship doing commercial gas and heating installs and gained my COCN1 before domestic.
As has been previously said, most of the places that have commercial equipment inside it will already be looked after by FM companies. I currently work for a large multi-national construction company who have a contract to look after a brand of banks within the UK.

I live in Blackpool and know for a fact, that the majority of hotels around this area have contracts with maintenance firms that I couldnt hope to compete with if I was looking for the work on my own.
I think unless you're confident that you will get some work which could then lead on to more work, its an area which has already been snapped up by large companies.

I have used my commercial gas since I was an apprentice, but only used it when working for the few companies I have worked for, On my own I have only ever done one job, It was a boiler room refurb in Bolton that required two new boilers and two new Andrew water heaters. The only thing that was asked for was for it to be done in iron pipework, in my eyes there was more work involved with this than if it was just a small domestic boiler room, I managed to get it done but it was hard work.





I also find that with commercial pipework, both gas and heating, the actual systems are fine and will run forever its more the appliances that require the maintainence, so you then need to think about what area of work would you be looking in? Maintenance? Full installs?

This then comes down to personal ability. If its boiler maintenance and repairs then everyone would most likely be ok, if you get contracted to do some install work, say a new boiler room that needed doing in iron pipework how would you cope with that? Going from domestic to commercial, is in my eyes harder than going from commercial to domestic.
I know a few domestic lads that dont know how to work a screwing machine, on the other hand I know a few lads who can use one easily.


Please dont take anything I have said as personal dig, its just that for the price of doing the commercial assement I would hate for you to spend the money and expect a decent return both easily, and quickly.
Obviously you could get lucky and do one job right away, word of mouth gets your name around even more as a commercial company and you make a good bit of money, but as thats not likely I think you need to be objective about the way you look at this.

Whatever you decide, best of luck!











Here is a small photo of the only commercial job I have done, 90% of this job was done in iron. There were two more water heaters behind me with a BMS system on the wall.

 

[billybob150811]

nice job ryster but doing a job like that soaks up money like rain in a desert bms system inverter driven pumps etc i hope you got a good return for it

 

[Ryster]

nice job ryster but doing a job like that soaks up money like rain in a desert bms system inverter driven pumps etc i hope you got a good return for it

Oh yeah, was there for almost 2 weeks on my own and made a very very decent amount of money. Had to spec and size everything from pumps to boilers, in truth it was the most mind boggling job and most worrying I have done but it turned out ok.But that was the only commercial job done on my own. Have never had another call through for anything myself.I was just trying to give an idea of what may be asked when doing commercial work as it's not just about the gas when you get into the bigger stuff and not everyone that has done domestic has been lucky enough to get some commercial experience.

 

[Kev the gas]

Great work.

Kev.

 

[fuzzy]

mever done the commercial ACS but wouldnt mind

 

[diamondgas]

"Ryster" .. excellent advice around the pitfalls etc. I stepped back into commercial 3 year ago, had a little experience from early years in B-gas, it took me some time to fathom out what I was looking at in plant rooms, learning the set ups and even what to touch on the BMS systems! For me after twenty odd years in domestic its opened up a whole new avenue of exploration and widened my knowledge and experience. I feel like I have just stepped out of my apprenticeship commercial wise, I must admit, and have a lot to learn. As long as I'm subbing I'll keep the tickets alive as it's proven worth while for me and paid for itself, thankfully!!!:grin:

 

[EPH]

Hard market to get onto mate, I've had a decent amount of experience in it. It is enjoyable and rewarding but unless you plan to go and work or sub to someone with the work already then it's quite a risk.

 

[mike_s]

I understand, I won't bother yet until I get asked to as the hotel I look after is only light commercial and not too daunting at all, nothing over 70kw.
On the bigger jobs like that boiler room ryster done (great job by the way, thanks for posting) I couldn't imagine doing anything like that as havn't got the knowledge or the practical skills.
Maybe I will build on my experience in the future. I'll see how it goes at this hotel and what they ask me to do, see if it will be worth me going for the tickets then and I can just not take on anything too big.
Most of it is only copper at this hotel, its doing the iron pipework which puts me off, I only did a little in college 7 years ago, threading the pipe and all.

 

[EPH]

When I find the pics I'll post some of mine up too, some nice low loss headers somewhere.
A lot of the installs will be off plan so normally following a pre designed schematic so not that difficult at all to be honest.
Once you've done 3 or 3 they all become similar and you'll find your feet.

 

[Ryster]

When I find the pics I'll post some of mine up too, some nice low loss headers somewhere.
A lot of the installs will be off plan so normally following a pre designed schematic so not that difficult at all to be honest.
Once you've done 3 or 3 they all become similar and you'll find your feet.

Agreed.
Once you have been and done a few its not to bad, you start to recognise where certain valves are required. Quick ways round things, but thats the same with everything really.
I do believe the hardest thing is getting the job in the first place.

 

[mike_s]

I'd just like to bump up this post as got a great price today for my changeover and main heating appliances. Taking a week off work is the hardest thing, I'm looking to do this after January. I may even add on the catering for only around 400 quid extra as there could be more work in that.

What encourages me more is that I never realised my dad has some commercial heating experience from working with british gas and more on catering so he can give me a hand, I'll feel confident with his 40+ years experience along side me and following good procedure.

I feel like there must be work available as surely all of these smaller restaurants and hotels would like to save money using a smaller firm or they can't get them out as there arn't that many around. I already look after 3 commercial appliances for 1 hotel but they are just up to 70kw bang on so I've been on with my domestic acs and following manufacturers instructions.

At first I don't plan on doing first fix commercial pipework over 35mm, just maintenance and swapping over appliances. I just won't take on anything I don't feel confident and capeable with.

I'd like to hear of more peoples experiences, particulary on the maintenance and final fix to new appliances, such as are the final connections still mostly copper?
I also have a couple of friends who work in commercial so I will chat to them about what I could maybe take on.

Marketing is something which works very well for us so I'd be confident of picking up some work after a campaign and more once the word gets around.

Thanks guys, look forward to replies.

 

[tamz]

You will undoubtedly be able to pick up some local commercial catering stuff but it is a pita. They only get things done when forced to by the council or the appliance giving up. The regs have probably changed a lot since your da did this type of thing and can now quite a complicated thing.

If you think it may be worth your while and you have a spare few hundred quid to spend buying a couple of tickets then by all means do it.

 

[mike_s]

cheers Tamz, yep I'll read books on commercial regs and safety before the course. My dad did mention as you say that you see a lot of commercial catering appliances in a mess and neglected and then they want it fixing which can be a pain and also that the manufacturers probably fit most.
however I'm only 23 and have 8 years experience working with him and on my own on domestic gas and borderline commercial so I think I've got a chance to pick it up.

The main enquirey I still have to make is about the pipework, I'm not sure if I will need my commercial first fix ticket and testing and purging up to 150mm? I wouldn't think of taking on anything bigger than that or even 35mm copper for that matter or 3/4" steel.

 

[Barry98]

got mine booked for 3rd of october , ive cancelled it twice this year , due to volume of work but must get it done now cant put it off no longer i have the work on offer. off up to leeds to get mine done

 

[arran197]

When I started my domestic apprenticeship I was put on the commercial part of the company. Not great when you are doing a domestic course, but great for gaining better experience. They put me through my commercial gas last year though, after having a 2 year gap from commercial gas work. So when it came to doing my commercial, I was a little rusty on the little knowledge I had. What made the tests really difficult was that the trainer I had didn't have a clue what he was doing and the guy assessing me knew everything, he is like a gas genius, someone to really look up to. We ended up having to have our assessor training us and the company had to employ someone else to assess us. It was very difficult for these reasons, so all I will say is make sure you get the right company to do your training and assessments with, because price is not everything. With greater understanding and knowledge on the subject, will give you more confidence and more income.

Since getting my commercial gas, the company made me redundant and until then I only used it to service 4 boilers and do 2 tightness tests on existing pipework. Both of which were small.