Drain and Caustic soda; has soda set hard?

[Jillian]

Dear All,
Sorry so long but a interesting question.

Have been using caustic soda to keep toilets and showers clean and free running in my house for 25 years. excellent product, does the Job.
I would really appreciate a answer to this question. Its a chemical reaction Question.

In my 100 years old house/home with unaltered original drains, I have a ground floor toilet whose soil pipe over 6ft, drops 18 inches into the main drain.
I had inspection manholes up and rodded the whole run [ simple L shape] and and ran hose pipe down from end to street drain, runs fast and clear.} Drains look in good shape.
Unfortunately at the T junction where the ground floor toilet 4 inch soil pipe joins the main drain there is no access manhole and no open drain the T joint is under the concrete. so cannot be simply rodded so I decided to use a 2 x 250 grams large dose of caustic over 2 days.
I ask this--- as a month ago we got the toilet flushing relatively properly from pan end but the loo paper was still there in the 6ft toilet drainpipe under a solid floor; But the water drained thru this; was Ok as the toilet only used for a pee no forgein or nasties put down and did not smell.
Question 1
Could your tech/chemist tell me, could this have set hard if its not wet ??.in the 6 foot long soil pipe which is obviously solid with soft loo tissue.
[as it can if you don't mix well in bucket}
And the idea was to work out how many gallons a 4 inch pipe and Ubend holds and pour hot water till it backed and filled pan; with drain stop in manhole 10 foot away and 6 foot to pan so alltogether about 20 foot of 4inch pipe. can anyone tell me how to work this out? And then use a mop to ponch the bowl to see if we could free it and see the blockage float by when we took stop out. .
Been away so toilet not flushed for a week and now a flush fills the pan then drains away over half a hour. So I just think its got more solid some how and wondered about how the caustic had behaved. Hence my question.
I
may be a mature women but this problem fascinates me I have always been able to clear a drain with rods and hot water and caustic..
Question 2
Does the caustic chemical stay active and possibly dangerous say if it was mixed with another chemical [ say clorine bleach] or has it changed to another type of soda chemical.!!
Any help or thoughts would be appreciated. I know I can get a drain guy in but I want to solve it.
Regards
Jill
　

 

[jtsplumbing]

Do you know if anything else has gone down drain ? toilet block etc, some cheep wc paper will not brake down, may even have damaged drain, could need a stronger unblocker, (DamBuster) or other industral strength product.

 

[stevetheplumber]

as abovge or can pan be removed for rodding?

 

[Rodolphe]

And the idea was to work out how many gallons a 4 inch pipe and Ubend holds and pour hot water till it backed and filled pan; with drain stop in manhole 10 foot away and 6 foot to pan so alltogether about 20 foot of 4inch pipe. can anyone tell me how to work this out?

I have been raised in metric so will not even attempt to answer with the data given, but I can give you the formula to work out the volume inside the pipe.

The cross section is pi x (radius squared). I would use a radius expressed in meters if I were you (i.e. a 110mm pipe has a radius of 0.055 meters and a cross section surface of 3.419 x 0.055 squared = 0.0095 m2)

You then multiply that number by the length in meter of your pipe (i.e. if you have 10 meters of pipe you end up with a volume in the pipe of 0.095 m3.

There are 1000 liters of water in 1m3. So the above example would mean you need 95 liters of water to fill that pipe (1000 x 0.095 = 95 liters).

I hope that helps somewhat.

Rodolphe (not yet a very good plumber but used to be good at maths )

Edit:

I've googled 20 foot 4 inches in google and it says that "20 foot 4 inches = 6.1976 metres"

So I believe the answer to your exact question becomes 6.1976 x 3.419 x 0.055 x 0.055 = 0.059 m3, which is 53 litres of Water.

My little conversion app tells me that's 14 US gallons, or 11.5 UK gallons (wtf? Even you anglo-saxons don't even agree on that??? God I love metrics!)

 

[Jillian]

Nothing that shouldn't have, I believe.
Use soft tissue . Don't beleive the drain is damaged [known house for 50 years]. the 4" toilet pipe is set in sand concrete from pan to joint I think..
Is damBuster a chemical; I am concerned about mixing caustic soda with another chemical ??
thanks for replying

cheers Jill

 

[Jillian]

thaks stevetheplummer
Last resort as would be difficult.
Jill

 

[jtsplumbing]

Hi Jill, yes DamBuster is a Chemical, buy it in 1ltr units cost about £20.00 from plumbers merchants (City Plumbing) if you have one in your area other makes on market, just as strong, One tip dont waste your money on Mr Mussel, if none of the chem.s work may need some one with jetting equipment,

 

[Jillian]

Rodolphe thanks for that full reply.

Your edit said 11.5 uk gallons this I find very depressing as that equals 6 or 8 builders buckets; I put more than that down a month ago, a lot more, Like 40 gallons with a stop in main drain But water didn't appear anywhere else. Mystifying.
Have remeasured the drain run and can only make it 24 foot long with ubend in.

Regards Jill

 

[Jillian]

Re: Drain and Caustic soda; has soda set hard?

Rodolphe thanks for that full reply.

Your edit said 11.5 uk gallons this I find very depressing as that equals 6 or 8 builders buckets; I put more than that down a month ago, a lot more, Like 40 gallons with a stop in main drain But water didn't appear anywhere else. Mystifying.
Have remeasured the drain run and can only make it 24 foot long with ubend in.

Regards Jill​

sorry I seem not to have posted correctly; new to this apologises. don't know quite what I did.


Read more: http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/p...tic-soda-has-soda-set-hard.html#ixzz1ycdyGca6​

 

[jtsplumbing]

If you are putting 40gal of water down drain & nothing showing , you could have a broken drain, find out if you are covered on insurance, may have to have cctv down pipes.

 

[Jillian]

JTSplumbing thankyou for replying.
had a fascinateing learning curve for past 2hours.
Looked up DamBuster its sulphuric acid and caustic soda is alkaline.
Googled what will happen if you mix the two; POW a exothermic [lovely word] explosion,nasty; which led me to Youtube to watch videos when you do, OK percentage concentration makes a difference; wish I'd done chemistry at school. Amazing the chemicals people mix for fun.

12 years ago this toilet was backing up a bit so I did hot water and washing soda, lots and lots as doing refurb of house as Mum died. If I had not known toilet always been there [parents house previous 50 years] I would have said some idiot had connected to a soakaway drain.
But plumber putting CH in cleared it, thou I believe it was my gallons of hot water that loosened the blockage. I beleive, thou don't remember, that he would have flushed the loo and watched the water flow by.

Now I know how much water the stopped drain to pan will hold,I checked Rodolphe's,[thanks again,} calculation on internet and ajusted up to 24 ft. I am going to stop drain and put 13.5 gallons down or until backs up;and see if water dissapears, then I will know definately whats happening.
A cracked drain that is draining unnoticed into garden or cellar,I would have thought I would have smelt or seen soggy patch.

But nothing as interesting as water and the ways it can fool you and dissapear somewhere you woud never have thought of.
After this I will think about digging up ex and interior concrete or remove the pan to rod. Depends on outcome.
I'll post online what happens if any one else is as unlucky.

thanks again jtsplumbing and everyone else.
I do go on so I will stop.
regards Jill

 

[jtsplumbing]

Exothermic Explosion , wow, must remember that, it's one for the men in white coats & :conehead: try local water board as well they have taken over a lot of drainage.

 

[Jillian]

JTS,
Had to look that icon up, I'am none the wiser; no idea what "conehead" means.?
Jill

 

[jtsplumbing]

Scienitst!

 

[Jillian]

JTSplumbing; IMPORTANT

I am adding this as this is what could happen and will; this is info from chemist.

The caustic packaging says do not mix with acid or any other cleaning product.

Caustic soda will set hard if allowed to sit. ie not flushed well.
if you pour Dambuster ie. sulphuric acid in the drain the 2 together WILL explode.
Only to be used by professionals with acid resistent suit on.

Actual case the chemist told me happened.

Someone with similar scenario [ie still blocked and caustic still held] to mine poured sulphuric acid down the toilet on top of caustic soda.
RESULT
Blew the toilet apart

The person was very lucky; only had acid burns.!

 

[jtsplumbing]

But did it clear the blockage ?? lol :toilet:

 

[Jillian]

You are a:biggrinjester:

Thought I'd invite government and local councillors round to do the :bomb2: and enjoy " when the s... [wouldn't let me use icon] Hits the deserving.

I am :devilish:
Took me a long time to compose this:wilted_rose: Hope I have not mis spoke.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Well done jillian maybe you could do your next thread just useing icon's, your becomeing as mad as the rest of us

 

[Jillian]

Just to say what problen was in the end.
I was convinced my drain was blocked.
Randolpe gave me the maths I did not beleive myself when I measured what went down.
so finalely dug the path up and there just under the main house wall a crack all the way round; wonder the house did not float away!

Believe the maths for volume.
and dig the path up.
Now going to have a CCTV scan on the whole length of drain to check nothing else dropped.
So CCTV if it dosn't make sense in a 100 year old house.
Trust this helps.
Regards Jillian