Ecotec plus 824 Replace seals for CP12

[jonny5isalive]

Quick one. Got a CP12 on an Ecotec plus 824. Offered them a service before I knew what the boiler was. They declined and just want a CP12. Obviously the MIs recommend a service every year and replacement of the seal with removal of the burner.
I'm going to show him the MIS and recommend replacing the seals but as far as I can tell if they haven't asked for a service do you think I'm OK just to do normal safety checks, FGA, visual apparaisal for safe working etc and as long as its within parameters leave it at that? Or is there some requirement to actually service it as well.

It was put in three years ago so I'd assume isn't one affected by the TB.

Cheers
Jon

 

[northcarr]

If they don't want to pay for a service then its simples don't do one just point out to them that it's an expensive boiler so why risk it braking down as long as you gas rate fga ect it's down to them.

 

[jonny5isalive]

Thanks for the reply. I was unsure if Vaillant saw it as a safety issue or not. I rang them and they were suitably vague but erred on the side of it being my decision as opposed to something they required to deem the boiler safe. Once I explained face to face the benefits with the customer he was keen to go ahead with the service anyway so that makes it easy.

 

[bewsh]

Bare in mind, Vaillant only require you to replace the burner gasket every 5 years, so strip down service at the same time. - providing it's got the upgraded graphite gasket and all is sound (fga readings, etc...) But make sure you check around the gasket with the fga to make sure it's not leaking.

 

[arran197]

To be honest, as long as everything else is ok, fga, gas rate, etc, then I wouldn't be worrying about taking the burner out anyway. Does it say to do this in the instructions? I don't think there's many people who would strip down a 3 year old boiler for a cp12 unless you knew there was something wrong. On the case of the old Vaillant with the dodgy door seals then definitely.

 

[kris]

Hi Jon,
At least youve offered and explained the benefits of a service , chances are theyve lost there garruantee because theyve not had it serviced annually so theyre the ones that will loose out if anything breaks down in next 2 years,

 

[ambrosia]

do you guys charge extra to service vaillants, or not do a full strip down till the 5 years is up

worcester have the same issue, however you can use a pressure gauge to see if nessasary to to the gasket and open the heat exchanger. Unfortunately i think theyre the only manufacturer which does this

 

[jonny5isalive]

Hi Jon,
At least youve offered and explained the benefits of a service , chances are theyve lost there garruantee because theyve not had it serviced annually so theyre the ones that will loose out if anything breaks down in next 2 years,

Hi Kris,

I did explain this to him but there's not much he can do now. I don't know if the installer is part of the advance system as he could potentially be missing out on 7 years. He did say that Vaillant have been haranguing him for a service for a while now.

Looks like the installer missed out on a trick. The install looked really nice. Condense in 32mm inside a shed. Very neat solder. Customer said he just couldn't get hold of him so he must be pretty busy and not have needed the work

 

[jonny5isalive]

do you guys charge extra to service vaillants, or not do a full strip down till the 5 years is up

worcester have the same issue, however you can use a pressure gauge to see if nessasary to to the gasket and open the heat exchanger. Unfortunately i think theyre the only manufacturer which does this

I'm going to replace the seal as it was actually installed in 2010, hasn't ever been serviced and the gas rate and FGA although within parameters were close to the edge. He wants to rent it out and move away and this at least would mean that hes leaving it the best he can.

I'll be charging for a normal service plus parts. I'm going to service his twintech at the same time for the same price as it won't take very long.

The Worcester test is pretty simple and seems a pretty logical way of testing whether it needs a clean. Then you need the magical Worcester brush tho.....................

 

[bewsh]

You can also adjust the maximum CO2 % on the gas valve - 9% +/- 1% (I believe) with the door off. Quite a lot of tolerance with these boilers.

 

[jonny5isalive]

I followed that. Its a surprising amount of tolerance they allow. Pig to get to tho like the burner pressure screws.

 

[bewsh]

Ye it's a bit tight to get the inlet pressure nipple. But to make it easier to adjust the CO2, just undo the screw holding the black air intake part up, and drop that down (keep it connected though)

 

[villa_tom]

Just follow this and you can't go wrong

we change the seals every five years as we have to inspect the burner and the heat exchanger.

Once the seal is changed just stick it into P1 and take your readings.

Personally, I wouldn't touch one of these if the customer wouldn't let me changed the burner seal and they had no proof it hadn't been done in the last five years

 

[jonny5isalive]

Ye it's a bit tight to get the inlet pressure nipple. But to make it easier to adjust the CO2, just undo the screw holding the black air intake part up, and drop that down (keep it connected though)

I've found it's fine if you're removing the burner as you can give yourself the space to attach the tube. Last one of these I came across it completely destroyed the only screwdriver small enough to fit in trying to undo the burner pressure screw as it was stuck so tight ( little electrical one where the head was obviously not hard enough). Short enough but didn't have a wide enough head. Thankfully had to remove the burner anyway and used that to just loosen it enough to allow normal operation.

When I did training at Vaillant there was a guy there from a HA and he had made himself a screwdriver of the right dimensions to fit in as he had to service so many.

I did look at adjusting the CO2 but I couldn't get the adjustment screw to do anything. I videoed the inside of the hole as it's quite deep and it didn't look like it had any sort of screwhead for any purchase. Vaillant said that it's a flat head with a 4 mil allen key in the middle.

I'll have a look when I go back for the service.

Thanks everyone for your advice

Cheers
Jon

 

[bewsh]

I think the older models had the flat head for adjustment and the newer ones have a 4mm allen key.

 

[jonny5isalive]

I think the older models had the flat head for adjustment and the newer ones have a 4mm allen key.

Took the burner off and it looked like both although i didn't try the allen key.

Found a stubby screwdriver set. Used the bigger flathead to adjust the co2 and the smaller flathead fits the burner pressure. [emoji106]

http://m.NoLinkingToThis/description.htm?id=57933

 

[Rabbitman]

Yes a nice little stubby with a 5mm bit works a treat, although on the newer ones the side panels can be removed

 

[Taffman]

new graphite seals a must