Electric socket near gas hob !

[royston]

Refused to connect a gas hob today for a kitchen fitter as an electrical socket within the zone where no combusaible materials aloud. So he spoke to trician who said socket could be fitted anywhere as its protected by a RCD.
Talking nonsense or what !!

 

[dontknowitall]

That means he'd be happy fitting one inside a shower cubicle?

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Refused to connect a gas hob today for a kitchen fitter as an electrical socket within the zone where no combusaible materials aloud. So he spoke to trician who said socket could be fitted anywhere as its protected by a RCD.
Talking nonsense or what !!

yep sparks is talking ballcocks its made out of plastic the socket so it will melt in the hot zone rcd or not you did the right thing

 

[royston]

Yeah i was 100 % sure it wasnt allowed, just does your head in when some so called trician tells the guy its ok !!

 

[stani]

does it actually state anywhere that the socket is'nt allowed, i.e GSR, MI's or 17th edition just interested

 

[royston]

Yeah ive got a diagram in one of my gas books that shows a zone where combustable materials arnt allowed, id class an electrical socket as one.

 

[gasmarc]

I was doing a gas safety cert and pulled them up on a socket that you could touch while standing in the bath or better still spray it with water , I rang Corgi and nowt to do with them ,Sparks said it was ok as over a certain height , which I thought was rubbish

 

[kirkgas]

sockets are allowed anywhere in kitchens as well (in relation to water supplies) i have done tons of kitchen refurbs where the new sink location leaves the sink under an existing socket, sparks are 100% sure its ok as per current regs, and i have checked it with an electrical manager i trust as he knows his stuff, just doesnt "look" roght to see a cable trailing behind the taps going to the kettle or microwave

 

[stani]

I was doing a gas safety cert and pulled them up on a socket that you could touch while standing in the bath or better still spray it with water , I rang Corgi and nowt to do with them ,Sparks said it was ok as over a certain height , which I thought was rubbish

height has nothing to do with it, its wether it comes into the prescribed zones 1 or 2, sockets can be in bathrooms provided they meet the 17th edition criteria.

 

[AWheating]

from another forum:

The simple answer is that BS 7671 does not specify a minimum distance. However, Regulation 512.2.1 requires due account to be taken of external influences. An extract from the regulation is reproduced below for ease of reference:

Extract from Regulation 512.2.1:
'Equipment shall be of a design appropriate to the situation in which it is to be used or its mode of installation shall take account of the conditions likely to be encountered.'


Domestic kitchens, bedrooms and cloakrooms (unlike bathrooms and shower rooms) are not included amongst the special installations or locations in Part 7 of BS 7671 and are not rooms where the resistance of the body is likely to be significantly reduced. Therefore, normal precautions against electric shock should be adequate and the general rules of BS 7671 are applicable.

However, whilst BS 7671 does not forbid the installation of a socket-outlet or other accessory close to a sink in a domestic kitchen, bedroom or cloakroom, the requirements of Regulation 512.2.1 have to be taken into account.

The requirements of Regulation 512.2.1 mean that ordinary BS 1363 socket-outlets and similar accessories are not suitable to be installed so close to sinks or draining boards that they are likely to be splashed with water or operated with wet hands.

The penetration of water into an accessory could have serious effects. Water entering the terminals and mechanism may lead to corrosion, internal arcing, general degradation and eventually malfunction. Additionally, and more seriously, water may provide a track for the line voltage to be transmitted to the front cover of the accessory, giving rise to the risk of electric shock.



The same would apply for the socket over the cooker, there is no reg (or specific guidance) saying you can't put a socket above a cooker, however there is lots of guidance about the cooker control switch.

Also from the Electrical Safety Council Technical Manual
The means of interrupting the supply on load should be readily accessible but the device should not be positioned where, in order to access it, a person would have to reach over the cooking appliances. Consideration should also be given as to whether the position of the device enables it to remain readily accessible in the event of a cooking fire.

 

[sparky3366]

17th edition doesn't specify about the placement in this sense, however biulding regs part p does. its a no no...

 

[marleyco]

sockets are allowed anywhere in kitchens as well (in relation to water supplies) i have done tons of kitchen refurbs where the new sink location leaves the sink under an existing socket, sparks are 100% sure its ok as per current regs, and i have checked it with an electrical manager i trust as he knows his stuff, just doesnt "look" roght to see a cable trailing behind the taps going to the kettle or microwave

The electrician I use would say other wise, also had couple of new builds and extensions where planning was involved and a rocket was pulled up for being to close to a sink. Electricians work with zone's the same as us, otherwise one would contradict the other

 

[mckaymmc]

There are no 'electrical' zones for Kitchens, as mentioned above. Sockets can go anywhere although their are separate rules for isolation for maintenance and switching.

The distance from a socket to the cooker ie the combustible zone isn't cover under 17th Edition or OSG's though if this is cover under Gas Safety regulation it would be sensible to ensure both sets of regulations aligned.

Are the combustible zones, under GSR, fixed or appliance specific.

Finally good practice means you would not do a lot of what is allowable under the regulations. You just need to know the difference. I would like to see the next edition of the regs split between domestic and commercial applications as I don't believe either is served by the current format.

Marleyco - There were rules under previous versions of the regulations (300mm from memoery) and these are often incorrectly applied. However I beleive common sense should apply in all instances first and rules second.