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Discuss Electrical boilers(electramate 2000) in the Boilers area at Plumbers Forums

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GQuigley67

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Gas Engineer
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got an electric boiler to repair, first of all let me say i have no experience what so ever with electric boilers I sent an engineer to go and fix the boiler today as i was busy and he phoned me saying its an electric boiler and he doesn't have MIs so couldnt fix it. I want to keep these customers as they look after alot of properties so have offered to have a look tomorrow "no fix no fee" as I have admitted I'm out of my comfort zone. Anyway symptoms are no heating or hot water, I have managed to source the MIs but was wondering if anyone has any tips or whats a logical step to repairing them ??
 
I know it might seem a bit obvious but take a sparky with you.
You'll pobably find it's high limit, but chances are you'll be passing it onto the sparky. Good luck.
 
If you're happy fault finding electrical problems on gas boilers you should be fine with electric boilers matey. Just take a multi-meter/test meter with you to fault find and all will be fine!

Most of the controls are very similar/identical to those you would find on gas central heating systems, just the power source that differs really.
 
yeah well as he didnt have the MIs he didnt want to touch it, but as I'm reading them the now it seems like it could be the overheat stat
 
I was just considering all the angles. If it's a good customer and you've come well prep'd and it's no fix no fee?
 
i just said that as i didnt know what to expect, if i fix it i get payed and i intend on fixing it
 
Last electrical boiler I was at, it turned out to be the pump (well the fact the system was full of crud didnt help either). It was continually on lockout and took two or three times to get going once the pump was changed and the system flushed.
 
so pretty much they are not that different from normal boilers just a different fuel source ? having a read at the mi's has made it less daunting now anyway, will let you know how i get on
 
Yes. The ones we fit just have stats in the immersion heaters, a high-limit stat plus a T/PRV valve to give the 3 safety controls needed. Other than that they are just big storage heaters to be honest, albeit with 4 immersion heaters in them.
 
went and seen boiler today, pumps running, stats ok, at first it seemed all 3 pumps were running but it was just the vibration through the pipes. I checked the temperature of the Primary Heat Exchanger and it was at 85 degrees, boiler pump showing signs of corrosion, AAV leaking, pump valves leaking. I have 240v at the boiler pump, resistance is 180. I'm thinking its the pump, what do you guys think ?


I'm thinking replace leaking parts
replace pump
flush and clean system
30 amp fuse in place where one is missing



this is in a rented apartment in town, so i don't think company will want to pay for powerflush, if they do, how troublesome will it be to do it on these rads ?


fuse.jpgpump.jpgrad.jpg
 
does anyone think this could be the problem ? when i opened the bleed screw on the pump luke warm water came out so the store must be up to temp. There was no power to the PHE pump is this the pump that circulates the store water and not the boiler pump ? it looks fairly new where the one in the picture looks knackered.
 
When a pump goes on an electra mate, it will often take the PCB with it.

I have fixed a fair few of these. There are different models of Electramate a 9kw and a 12. Ensure you know what one you are working on. This will help:

How does the ElectraMate 2000 work?
The water in the unit is heated by pumping it through a 9kW or 12kW 'flow boiler'. The flow boiler is a copper cannister containing a pair of 4.5kW or 6kW immersion heaters. The pump needs to run whenever the immersion heaters are powered up to distribute the heat energy. There is a thermistor (heat sensor) inside the water store and this tells the circuit board the temperature of the stored water. Overnight the board runs the pump and flow boiler to heat the unit up to 80 degrees Celsius on cheap-rate electricity. If during the day the core temperature falls below 55 degrees C, the board turns the heat on again and warms it to about 60 degrees using day-rate electricity, to avoid the user losing heating and hot water services completely.
A thermistor (heat sensor) is attached to the domestic hot water outlet from the plate heat exchanger. When a hot tap is turned on the thermistor records a fall in temperature, and the circuit board runs the hot water pump. The pump circulates stored hot water through the plate heat exchanger, heating it, and the circuit board turns it off again when the thermistor reports a temperature rise. This system is proportional. The bigger the temperature fall seen by the thermistor, the faster the circuit board runs the pump. This way the designed flow temperature (of 52 degrees Celsius, I think) can be maintained at almost any flow rate when a hot tap is turned on.
Common problems:
The vast majority of ElectrMate 2000 breakdowns to which I am called out fall into one of the following categories:

1) Heating element failure in the flow boiler.
The ElectraMate 2000 has two immersion heater elements in the flow boiler, and commonly one will fail and the user does not notice. When the second fails, the unit goes stone cold and all services are lost. It becomes urgent to fit a new flow boiler! I always carry them as spare parts in stock so I can promptly repair a flow boiler failure.

2) Relay failure.
The flow boiler and the heat store are both protected from overheating by overheat thermostats. These thermostats operate relays that isolate the power from the flow boiler should either thermostat trip out. The problem is that the wiring connections to these relays sometimes overheats, burling out the wiring and one or both relays. New relays and wiring are needed to repair.

3) Thermistor failure.
The hot water service heat sensors (there are actually two) can become unreliable with age. This usually presents as unpredictable hot water performance or unstable hot water temperature. The thermal store will be hot, but the pump will not run fast enough (or at all) when the hot tap is open. A new hot water flow sensor is needed.

4) Circuit board failure.
Failure of any of the circuit board functions means a new board is required.
Control board failure can also be caused by pump failure or water ingress from a leak into a (still working) pump motor. In this situation fitting a new board without replacing the pump motor usually results in the new board failing too. The best defence for an engineer is to measure the input resistance of the three pumps and to visually inspect each of them for any evidence of water contamination. If any pump has a resistance of less than 160 Ohms or has any sign of water marks or corrosion around the connection box on the motor, I strongly advise replacing it even if the pump still works.

5) Tripped immersion heater overheat protection thermostat.
This is easily rectified by pressing the reset button on the overheat thermostat (located on the right hand side of the unit, under the front cover, and near the floor). The reason for the tripping needs to be investigated though and this can be very difficult to trace. Usual reason is a stuck boiler pump (lowest of the three). If the boiler pump is not seized then possibly the pump is intermittently sticking, or the overheat thermostat itself has lost its calibration and needs replacing. Another possibility is the right-hand power relay at the top of the unit is sticking ON when the board withdraws energising power from it. Best thing to do in my view is replace all three components together (relay, pump and overheat thermostat) as a speculative repair.

6) Tripped store overheat protection thermostat.
As above, this is easily rectified by pressing the reset button, but the reason for the trip still needs to be investigated. (This thermostat tripping is usually accompanied by the heater element overheat thermostat tripping at the same time because it stops the boiler pump while the immersion heaters are running, causing a genuine overheat of the heater element cartridge.) The usual reason for the store thermostat tripping is loss of calibration of the thermostat itself, so a replacement thermostat will fix it. Diagnosis is more likely to be correct if the store thermostat stops tripping when the summer/winter switch on the unit is set to 'summer', and/or the problem is worse when the switch is set to 'winter'. Replacing the thermostat is the first thing to try regardless, as it is by far the most likely cause. If the problem persists then the store is likely to be genuinely overheating, usually caused by control board failure.

7) Leaking isolator valves.
ElectraMates have several 'ball' type isolator valves. These are fitted for the purpose of allowing replacement of circulating pumps (and a few other components) without draining the whole thermal store. Sadly these isolator valves have a tendency to leak water through the seals around the operating spindles after being used. Surprisingly these leaks generally 'self-heal' after ten or fifteen minutes as microscopic debris in the water gets caught up, slowly blocking up the water path causing the leak. Unfortunately this is not always the case, and the consequences can be bad. If the water continues to leak from an isolating valve it is not unusual for it to eventually corrode though the metal of the pump motor body and enter the motor windings causing the pump to fail. Pump failure often causes control board failure at the same time, and water in the pump motor windings sometimes causes control board failure even if the pump motor still works.
If there is evidence of isolator valves leaking I advise replacing them. This is very time-consuming as the unit need to be drained and all three pumps removed first, but unless this is done there is a continuing risk of pump and control board failure.
An alternative course of action is to purchase the manufacturer's extended warranty plan. This is available to all owners of Gledhill appliances, even if the original warranty has long expired. Contact Gledhill for more information

Credit to Mike the Boiler man.
 
As for powerflush on those rad's....I have no idea. Interested to hear opinions.
 
PCB.jpg

well seems i was wide off the mark, i misread the data and thought the store was at 85, its actually at 20 degrees, had techincal to talk to today as last night it was 6pm, he reckons its the boiler flow. I am getting power to the boiler flow, boiler pumps running, continuity at all stats, power to heating pump, I'm going to replace the boiler flow and relay, and get new fuses for the ones that are missing.

this boiler looks much more complicated than your usual boiler, the 3 pumps throws you off lol, aswell as the 30amp wiring.
 

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    PCB.jpg
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you cant really make out the writing but the red circle shows scorched wires, the 2 red wires are the boiler flow connections one has 240v present the other around approx 14v, 30amp fuse has 240v at both ends and at the relay, the other one which doesnt have the fuses has 240v supply and approx 14v out.
 
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