Essex Flange for a Shower Pump

[Jonplumb]

I want to install an Essex Flange to the cylinder for a shower pump. (Cylinder is surrounded by shelving plus is about 15 years old and has overlapping pipes at top connection so I'd prefer to drill a hole in the cylinder and leave the older connections alone)
The flange I have is the E1R type

3/4 inch with no compression fitting. Can I use male couplers on either side of this type of flange to connect 3/4 inch pipe to and from the cylinder? Or would you solder some suitable brass threads onto the outside of the flange to convert it to a compression fitting type flange? Is it advisable not to have a compression fitting inside the cylinder submerged in water permanently? Would really appreciate any advice. Thanks very much in advance!! (Sorry for sending PMs of this to a few guys!! My first time using this!)

 

[Ben-gee]

Just use a male iron to compression.
If it’s an old tank I would be more worried about problems associated with removing the immersion than simply altering a bit of pipework.....

 

[Rob Foster]

Remove an immersion ....if you get it wrong curtains. Always leave it full of water with the drain connected to a hose. this way the cylinder is stronger and will not crumple, when just loose drain water out ..simplse
Cenralheatking, bit of heat but don’t burn the plastic stuff

 

[Ben-gee]

You obviously don’t live with hard water!
Leave tank full to crack open immersion, as you say to maintain integrity of wafer thin copper.
Then whip off top connection, bung hose pipe in and suck away! Syphon out tank in minutes - but via draincock at bottom amongst all the sludge it takes hours!
Plus no worry of drain cock weeping afterwards.
To finish off , 9 iron or wedge through immersion hole and oik out the scale with aid of wet vacuum.

 

[Rob Foster]

You obviously don’t live with hard water!
Leave tank full to crack open immersion, as you say to maintain integrity of wafer thin copper.
Then whip off top connection, bung hose pipe in and suck away! Syphon out tank in minutes - but via draincock at bottom amongst all the sludge it takes hours!
Plus no worry of drain cock weeping afterwards.
To finish off , 9 iron or wedge through immersion hole and oik out the scale with aid of wet vacuum.

Used to do this in Bath ..yes ur right but we usually scrapped them if that bad ...however one good trick when the hot water flow gets slow is to turn of water supply , crack open top nut move it over and use a masonry drill to clear the blockage ....the rock migrates to the top nut . Bingo full,bore hot water supply restored

 

[Jonplumb]

Thanks very much for all the replies!! I'll probably leave the immersion alone and use the male iron to compression fittings. Cheers!

 

[Best]

Essex flanges are probably the most hateful plumbing invention.
I never use them, except to do a swap when they start flooding.
I would use Surrey or Warix flange in top of cylinder, regardless of the work involved

 

[Jonplumb]

Essex flanges are probably the most hateful plumbing invention.
I never use them, except to do a swap when they start flooding.
I would use Surrey or Warix flange in top of cylinder, regardless of the work involved

Good to know. Do you think anyone out there still uses them at all?

 

[Best]

Good to know. Do you think anyone out there still uses them at all?

Yes, some people still use them. It is one of the methods pump manufacturers state for hot draw off.
The flanges for screwing into top of cylinders are easier to install and no drilling.
Heat eventually destroys the soft rubber washers on Essex flanges

 

[Rob Foster]

Yes, some people still use them. It is one of the methods pump manufacturers state for hot draw off.
The flanges for screwing into top of cylinders are easier to install and no drilling.
Heat eventually destroys the soft rubber washers on Essex flanges

Bes gas electric avenue Brum
Chk

 

[Best]

Edited

 

[Best]

Bes gas electric avenue Brum
Chk

???
Over my head.

 

[Jonplumb]

Yes, some people still use them. It is one of the methods pump manufacturers state for hot draw off.
The flanges for screwing into top of cylinders are easier to install and no drilling.
Heat eventually destroys the soft rubber washers on Essex flanges

I thought so alright. Thanks again for the feedback. The washers that came with it seem to be pretty thick ones like wine bottle cork stuff. Manufacturer claims it can take up to 120 degrees celsius which would be hotter than a kettle!! Cheers.

 

[Best]

I thought so alright. Thanks again for the feedback. The washers that came with it seem to be pretty thick ones like wine bottle cork stuff. Manufacturer claims it can take up to 120 degrees celsius which would be hotter than a kettle!! Cheers.

That is news to me. The washers are usually very soft white rubber (to guarantee they mould to the curve shape of the cylinder and the uneven surface often caused when it is drilled.
They certainly used to be only suitable for 60 degrees or so.
Once they go hard they can leak and sooner if the pipe gets a knock

 

[Jonplumb]

That is news to me. The washers are usually very soft white rubber (to guarantee they mould to the curve shape of the cylinder and the uneven surface often caused when it is drilled.
They certainly used to be only suitable for 60 degrees or so.
Once they go hard they can leak and sooner if the pipe gets a knock

Yes I've seen those type online. Creamy white looking washers. Look very dodgy. These hard cork ones are flexible to take the shape of the surface too. Maybe I'll get a bottle of plonk, boil it and see at what temp does a cork start to dissolve!!! Thanks for the quick replies.

 

[Ben-gee]

You say you leave the immersion alone, how are you going to get the Essex flange inside the cylinder?
I’d definitely use Surrey, or even tee off hot feed half way down cylinder in preference to Essex- but I’m a scardy cat having dropped one in cylinder before....

 

[Best]

You say you leave the immersion alone, how are you going to get the Essex flange inside the cylinder?
I’d definitely use Surrey, or even tee off hot feed half way down cylinder in preference to Essex- but I’m a scardy cat having dropped one in cylinder before..

Sure he can just fit the Essex flange from the drill hole?
That is what it is designed for. The split copper washer covers inside the oversize hole
If anyone was to fit it from an immersion hole, just need a piece of stiff wire (earth wire good) and just use a brass tank fitting with something to seal it and let it thread through the wire. Drill hole then can be tight fit

 

[Jonplumb]

Sure he can just fit the Essex flange from the drill hole?
That is what it is designed for. The split copper washer covers inside the oversize hole
If anyone was to fit it from an immersion hole, just need a piece of stiff wire (earth wire good) and just use a brass tank fitting with something to seal it and let it thread through the wire. Drill hole then can be tight fit

Yes. That's the route I think I'll take. Have a 38mm bimetal holesaw and will use my own long wire. But original reason for post was to find out if it's ok to have a male iron compression fitting inside the cylinder submerged permanently in the water to attach a piece of pipe to the flange on the inside with a 45 degree angle cut out for air to travel around the pipe and not up it. Thanks again for your advice.

 

[Best]

Yes. That's the route I think I'll take. Have a 38mm bimetal holesaw and will use my own long wire. But original reason for post was to find out if it's ok to have a male iron compression fitting inside the cylinder submerged permanently in the water to attach a piece of pipe to the flange on the inside with a 45 degree angle cut out for air to travel around the pipe and not up it. Thanks again for your advice.

I hadn’t realised that is what you were thinking.
You can use a brass tank fitting if you use proper seals on it, but it will not fit through the top of cylinder unless you use the immersion hole, which is a problem to remove immersion.

 

[Jonplumb]

I hadn’t realised that is what you were thinking.
You can use a brass tank fitting if you use proper seals on it, but it will not fit through the top of cylinder unless you use the immersion hole, which is a problem to remove immersion.

Thanks. Will post some pics of the idea I had in mind tomorrow because luckily I have a scrapped cylinder to do a mock up of the connections I have in mind. Cheers

 

[Ben-gee]

Yes, sorry Best you’re right. Just I like to cut a nice tight hole if at all possible to get better coverage on the washers.

 

[Best]

Yes, sorry Best you’re right. Just I like to cut a nice tight hole if at all possible to get better coverage on the washers.

I used to just fit brass tank fittings.
Far superior job, tight fit hole in cylinder and no rubber washers. Much cheaper too!
Used to fit 15mm tank fittings for return connection to Willis Immersion heaters (you probably won’t have heard of them)
Prefer to buy cylinders with extra bosses now.
And the 1/2” drain tapping doubles up for Willis pipe

 

[Ben-gee]

External immersion feeds back into top of cylinder, never seen one in ‘real life’ though.
If a new cylinder, our merchants do gledhill who will make up to your exact requirements- a god send when replacing in a tight space (the old - put cylinder and pipe work, then build cupboard too tight- six the next plumber).
You can have as many bosses of chosen size precisely where you want! It’s a great service, have had it next day.

 

[Best]

External immersion feeds back into top of cylinder, never seen one in ‘real life’ though.
If a new cylinder, our merchants do gledhill who will make up to your exact requirements- a god send when replacing in a tight space (the old - put cylinder and pipe work, then build cupboard too tight- six the next plumber).
You can have as many bosses of chosen size precisely where you want! It’s a great service, have had it next day.

Yes, a lot of copper cylinder manufacturers do “specials”.
Very handy in a tight space, as you say and well worth the effort to survey the job and make it easy for yourself later.

The Willis heaters use a 3kw (usually) 11” element. Save money because you can have a small amount of very hot water in a couple of minutes. It was invented in NI and very common here

 

[rpm]

I want to install an Essex Flange to the cylinder for a shower pump. ............

(My edit)

Would really appreciate any advice. Thanks very much in advance!! (Sorry for sending PMs of this to a few guys!! My first time using this!)

No worries about the PM as a newbie, far better off posting it here and getting replies plus you learnt a valuable lesson, Shaun the mod will read, edit or delete PM`s as he see`s fit being Judge, Jury and Executioner.
Enjoy the forum.