Experience with fitting two flow pumps?

[Mark A]

Hello,


I wondered if anyone has got any experience with fitting two pumps in one house. I want to boost the water pressure on both the hot and the cold, but the hot is fed from the tank, and the cold throughout the house is fed direct from the mains.

The hot water circuit is split into two, bath and shower (which already has a flow pump on it), and the rest of the house. There's a couple of long runs to sinks and the hot flow rate is very low (partially due to micro bore's), pretty much making the hot useless. Hence, I want to put the whole house's hot on a pump. The pump can only be mounted above the tank due to space limitations in the airing cupboard, however I think I would still get away with a flow pump as there is enough flow to switch it on.

Also, the mains water pressure is very low, so I wanted to fit a booster pump to that.

I've spoken to technical line for Stuart Turner and the bloke on the phone originally suggested a pressure switch pump, but then wasn't sure if it would work with a flow pump on the mains as the pressure pump might fight the flow pump in any mixer taps.

Has anyone got any experience with this or suggestions for how I could make this work?

Thanks, Mark.

 

[Chalked]

Please register with the forum.
You will then recieve replies to your question.

 

[Mark A]

Thanks Chalked, I've registered now.

 

[Mark A]

Surely someone must have done this?

 

[Riley]

You have Microbore to hot water outlets ???

 

[chris watkins]

What flow rate have you got from the cold at the bath ? time how long it takes to fill a known size bucket to get Litres per min or sec.

As a rule you can't pump the mains !

Positive head (flow) pumps can't be installed above the cold water cistern (unless you mean the hot water cylinder) & even then they will need head of around 1Metre to activate the flow switch.

 

[Mark A]

Riley - The micro bore pipes are just the flexible lengths that go from the 15mm copper to the tap.

Chris - I get about 6.5l/min from the cold at the bath.

What about the Stuart Turner Flowmate type pumps that boost the mains?

Sorry, i meant the hot water cylinder...

 

[chris watkins]

There is more than likely a problem somewhere on your system if that is all you are getting a plumber should investigate.

The only pumps that are allowed directly on the mains are those that can't draw any more than 12L/M that is not a great deal albeit it is double what you are getting at the moment.

Before you go spending loads on pumps which still may not solve the problems get the mains sorted out first.
Think about going over to an unvented mains fed system in the long run it will be cheaper & work better than two lots of pumps which will not be matched, will breakdown, cost electricity to run, may drain the cistern so that you need to increase storage by replacing it, have to alter the hot pipe work as air builds up in the hot water pump which means it either doesn't work or breaks down.

Get the idea pumps are a last resort on pumping systems.

 

[Mark A]

Hi Chris,

The trouble with the mains is that it's an old 1930's ex council house and there's 8 houses being fed from a 1" (possibly 3/4") steel pipe which is connected to the main main in the road. There is a likelihood that there is a leak on this 1" pipe somewhere which is causing a reduction of pressure. But to replace this would mean digging up 8 peoples front gardens and the road where all the cars are parked.

There's nothing wrong with the plumbing, it's all brand new from when we did the refurb on the house and it was done by a reputable plumber.

The cold supply is already unvented mains fed. The only thing that isn't fed from the mains is the hot water cylinder.

The plumber did fit a pressure reg on the incomer, that reads between 1.5 and 2 bar generally, but the flow is low due to the 8 houses running of the same main. Hence why i wanted to put a booster on it to increase the flow to the cold, a second to increase the hot.

 

[Howsie]

You don't want to be pumping the mains (even within the limit allowed) then or there is a very real chance you'll be causing back flow somewhere down the line which you defo don't want!

My advice is to get an a decent sized CWSC and then pump from that. Lot's of options from there.

 

[chris watkins]

It is never going to get better & if you start drawing water via a pump the others connected are going to get less water, maybe they will fit a pump to so you will be in the same situation.
Go speak to all that connect to the main it should be a shared cost it is worth getting a quote there are ways around all that digging see below.

Moling - Trenchless Solutions

PS mains is mains
unvented is a hot water cylinder fed from the mains so same (equal) pressure as the mains i.e. no pumps.

 

[Mark A]

I've already got a CWSC but that only feed the hot water cylinder. We decided to run all the cold direct from the mains. Re-instating the cold supply from the CWSC would be a nightmare now.

Unfortunately I doubt very much that I'll be able to get the rest of the residents to agree to paying for upgrading their supplies so looks like we're stuck as we are.

I'll just have to get a larger flow pump to switch all of the hot in the house to pumped.

The hot is vented then, not unvented... I'll get there one day...

Thanks for you help.

 

[Howsie]

Unfortunately Mark whoever recommended you to go the way you have was wrong.

 

[chris watkins]

Unfortunately Mark whoever recommended you to go the way you have was wrong.

Mark seemed to have made up his mind what he was going to do before asking on here anyway which is a shame cos you feel like your wasting your time trying to stop someone making such a big costly mistake.

You just can't help some people, still need to focus on those that you can!

 

[oz-plumber]

Just a side note.

Doesn't the water supplier have an obligation to supply sufficient water to the property's?
If the mains aren't big enough to cope with 8 existing dwellings, should they not be the ones footing the costs of upgrading the mains.

 

[Howsie]

Just a side note.

Doesn't the water supplier have an obligation to supply sufficient water to the property's?
If the mains aren't big enough to cope with 8 existing dwellings, should they not be the ones footing the costs of upgrading the mains.

They do, it's quite low and he will be well within it at my guess.

 

[Mark A]

Mark seemed to have made up his mind what he was going to do before asking on here anyway which is a shame cos you feel like your wasting your time trying to stop someone making such a big costly mistake.

You just can't help some people, still need to focus on those that you can!

Chris, your right in saying that i knew what i wanted to do, but i wasn't sure the best way to go about it. Unfortunately the plumbing had already been completed and floors put down etc. before this issue became apparent. To rectify it now is not an easy job. Hence why i was asking for advice on which would be the best method to sort it.

To suggest that you can't help some people is taking the :nono: a bit to be honest. I'd originally thought that this would be a helpfull forum but without all the sarcastic bull :nono: that tends to go with the majority of forums. Turns out i was wrong. The ironic thing is that you did actually help, go figure...

 

[Mark A]

They do, it's quite low and he will be well within it at my guess.

And they don't take responsibility for any underground pipework that is on private land, as the main runs down the front of all the houses, it's our responsibility to fix any leaks or upgrade it if required.

 

[rpm]

To suggest that you can't help some people is taking the **** a bit to be honest. I'd originally thought that this would be a helpfull forum but without all the sarcastic bull s*$t that tends to go with the majority of forums. Turns out i was wrong. The ironic thing is that you did actually help, go figure...

So you have a problem and came here to pick the brains of experienced people free of charge already knowing what you were going to do. Suggestions were made that didn`t suit you resulting in you spitting the dummy out.

Go figure ...

 

[Dotty]

Thread closed while I take a read through.