Fast track courses and onwards

[tonyevans123]

As a newbie id just like to comment on how useful im finding this site and its forums. I attended a fast track course and am fully aware of its limitations. I passed the C&G with no worries and actually found it very easy. Im now looking at completing the NVQ and want to go onto complete Water regs, Unvented, ACS and all the level three stuff. Yes i know qualifications dont make a good plumber lol. Im currently looking for a experienced plumber to take me under their wing. I see this as a career for the next decade or two and not in it to become rich over night. I got into it because i enjoy the work and the challenges it will bring. Im amazed by how many people are asking silly questions like how to quote for jobs when a few phone calls will get you good comparisons for your area.
Anyhow beginning to ramble so will just say again thanks to all the people who answer genuine questions and i know i will be using this site often in order to help grow my knowledge and become a good plumber

 

[secret squirrel]

Although I agree about asking for prices, I personally don't ask for help on pricing. This is one of the more difficult aspects (for me) of running a plumbing business. I accept your point about phoning around other plumbers but this does have (in my humble opinion) limitations.

I try and never quote for work over the phone (for this reason, people fishing), the person quoting may not be a professional plumber and easily be able to undercut us because he has another career. They may not be insured and also if you are given a rough estimate over the phone, this may not be anywhere near the price the customer has to pay.....

This is a situation that happened to me recently, customer called me to do a syphon and had been quoted (as I was told, who knows whether it was true!) £40 incl parts. I said that I was not prepared to compete with that. The tradesman turned up and on arrival the job apparently was very complicated and was re-quoted in excess of £100 and the part was not a standard fit. I was then called to do the job.

I have also been told about tradesman that quote for a straight swap bathroom at £250 but as soon as a pipe is moved it is no longer a straight swap and the price goes up.

I agree what has been said time and time again on this forum and I try to do it, always keep the customer informed and stick to what you think the job is worth.

So, in essence, I do understand peoples confusion, what makes pricing even more difficult is that it depends on your geographical area........

 

[IPB Plumb]

Tony I am also a newbie and am finding the site equally as informative. I already have a career and this will finish in bout 10years so I am seriously looking into plumbing courses and getting out there after these are completed.

Secret Squirrel makes a lot of sense.... You should never quote over the phone because people will always make the job sound a lot easier than it is!!!! Hence poor quoting and loss of profit...

I will just want fair money for a good job, that's what I would expect if I was asking for a quote

 

[tonyevans123]

yep that all makes sense. Im trying to quote on what i think the job is worth and no doubt will get better as my knowledge expands

 

[furryneddy]

why not charge by the hour ?????

 

[Dave]

You can now chat about pricing issues in the plumbers arms then your posts will not be viewed by the public looking for prices...

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-forum/3770-plumbers-arms-now-open.html

 

[furryneddy]

Well Dave do you think it needs to be kept "secret" then ?? what plumbers charge ?? is it a secret society are mechanics/gasfitters/tyrefitters/anyone than comes in your house part of this ????????

 

[Dave]

Well Dave do you think it needs to be kept "secret" then ?? what plumbers charge ?? is it a secret society are mechanics/gasfitters/tyrefitters/anyone than comes in your house part of this ????????

The option is there if the members want to discuss pricing or other issues that they do not want the public to see and if you would like to discuss in the publicly viewed sections then thats ok as well....

We find that private forums like this pub one goes down well...

Can i ask what your worries are about members doing this out of the public gaze..? are you a plumber...?

 

[furryneddy]

Yes Dave I am I have all my Qualifications unvented part P Part L etc etc why have a secret bit away from public ? we are providing a service the same as I said tyrefitters/gasfitters/electricians/garageworkers/anyone else that come in to your home do you question those ? do you go to Tescos buy tomatoe's and ask the checkout girl "is that the right price for those or can I look on a website and get them cheaper elsewhere?? and put the( REMOVED) things back if I can??

 

[Dave]

I don't appreciate you swearing....rather un couth...

If the members want a pub to discuss certain things then they can...if YOU do not want to use it then you do not have to....Can't see a prob here when the members have requested a pub....And as you are a new member then maybe if you take time to input and see how the members are then you might not be so uptight..

thanks for your feedback though..

 

[furryneddy]

Hi Dave - Not uptight dont won't to cause any bother either but you did seem to be advocating that pricing for jobs on the forums was not the done thing on public view ie. lets discuss it elsewhere where they can't see it ? dont see either whether I'm a Junior member or not has any bearing ?

Best wishes

Mike Dudlley
Plumb-Lec Limited

uncouth - one word

 

[Dave]

No probs mike..like i said pricing or what ever can be discussed anywhere but some members like to ask about certain things in a seprate forum away from the public if they so wish too...

The plumbers arms is also a place for jokes and threads that could be liable if seen by the wrong eyes, say for instance a member had some bother from a customer then wanted to discuss about it but not really where the customer could view it, those sort of posts....and as i mentioned before not all like discusing things in the open..so the arms is there if they need to use after bieng granted access......


hope that has cleared it up abit....

 

[furryneddy]

Yes sorry I didn't consider that situation - I understand now where youre coming from on this issue

Mike

being not bieng

 

[david williams]

i have been a plumber for 40 years,i have never known a time when it has been harder to obtain work.no mater what you are told you will not be a plumber after 12 to 16 weeks training .the only people making money out of plumbing at prescent are training companies ,there are not 30000 jobs for plumbers out there,there might have been 2 years ago .a lot of employers are asking for 4 years post training experience before they will consider you for employment.over the last year a lot of my work has been putting right work carried out by poorly trained plumbers.some of the work i have had to put right on unvented cylinders has made me think that the bpec unvented certificate is actualy not worth the paper it is printed on.i know that people reading this may not like my coments and that i am just an old moaning plumber who does not like to think other people have found a quick way of becoming a plumber. i actualy did a 6 month traing course in 1967 but soon found it was not enougth.my advice to all new plumbers is to keep training and learning and if you dont know or understand ask somone who does .we in the plumbing industry have bought this situation on ourselves by not having a proper structured entry and training system in place. good luck to all of you you are going to need it

 

[johnmcginty]

Charging by the hour is good for emergencies however if you tell a customer an hourly rate you could be risking loosing the job in some other circumstances. I will chat more as dave says (when he lets me in the pub ....they are still checking my I.D)

Has anyone seen the tv add for careers train (or something like that )...the guys washing machine breaks and he is fixing it with his new found plumbing skills and looks at the camera and says his 40 grand a year will come in handy in "the credit crunch" I almost wet myself laughing . They should have sensorship on ads like this as the bubble has now burst and 40 k a year is a massive over estimation for a newly qualified plumber! rant over

 

[tonyevans123]

Well haven't i opened a can of worms.
1. I like the thought of a private area where topics can be discussed between other plumbers without possibly upseting the public.
2. I am in total agreement about the fast track courses (i did one) not being the be all and end all of plumbing training. I completed a 5 year apprenticeship whilst in the navy and understand the depth of training it gave but accept that a couple of years were probably wasted on niff naff and trivia. I truly believe that in any trade to remain professional the training has to be ongoing particularly within a regulated industy. I'm about to do the unvented and the water regs courses. These are both one day courses with home study alongside. I know i wont be an expert on either but consider them a first step in my learning how to be competent when dealing with both.
3. I may be a rare case in that i want to do the job for the job as well as a wage but im sure there are others out there like me so how about looking at the person before one dismisses them just because of thecourses they have done.

 

[david williams]

tony what were you in the navy

 

[tonyevans123]

i was originally an air engineering apprentice but finished as an aircraft engineering office