Fire valves

[Millsy 82]

I have had a few boilers that our company have installed in the past year have all gone down for the exact same reason the 1 boiler has gone down 3 times and every time it is the fire valve has tripped. The boilers are all the same heatslave 25/32 external. The bulbs are in the retaining clips.

Could it be that because the boilers are so well insulated and the fire valves are set to trip at 62C apparently, Do they need to be a higher temperature fire valve I cant think of anything else really as I cant imagine I have 3 duff fire valves over a period of 3 months and that these boilers have all developed the exact same fault.

 

[ecowarm]

Change them for 90c

 

[Millsy 82]

Is that what they should have been I take it the lads who fitted them just said fire valves to the merchants and thats what they got

I also spoke to worcester and they said it shouldnt really matter but these oil boilers do seem to get really hot when they have the cases on.

 

[Nostrum]

Worcester are muppets (as usual) because it written in their instruction manual page 10

A fire valve with a shut off temperature of
85°C or higher must be fitted to avoid
the possibility of nuisance shut offs.

http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/ca...ns--boilers-manufactured-until-april-2012.pdf

Plumb center sell Jet 90 fire valves

 

[Millsy 82]

Thank you

 

[Nostrum]

:wacko:

 

[Roger Welton]

What fire valves are you gus using, I am still going for Teddington though my merchants only stock some other make ~I've never heard of.

 

[Nostrum]

used to fit the jet fire valves supplied by plumb center as they were readily available in 90 degree. Can't say I've ever had a problem with one, we did use some from BES and the phials kept snapping off the body really easily and the occasional one wouldn't stay open straight out the box so binned them off.

Don't install oil now as i'm not oftec registered myself at the moment, only do servicing and repair for a few people here and there (mainly old customers who's boilers I fitted at the time)

My tickets are up for renewal next year so i'll see how it goes, not sure where the legal stance is on this for servicing etc? Can't see it being worth renewing it all for the amount of work I get and it's location.

 

[SimonG]

Peerless, teddington then jet in that order. Peerless on price, teddington on reputation and jet because you don't need a pair of 1/4" x 10mm MI connectors.

 

[WHPES]

My merchants stock Peerless.

I avoid the cheap ones such as Primaflow / RAF as they have given me problems.

 

[kimbo]

I had an oftec inspection the other day and as I retire in 4 yrs time I wasnt going to renew my oftec in november as I will not be installing anymore due to the physical demand on an ageing body. I said I was only going to do breakdowns and servicing. I was told that I had to be oftec registered to service the boilers.

 

[peteheat]

I had an oftec inspection the other day and as I retire in 4 yrs time I wasnt going to renew my oftec in november as I will not be installing anymore due to the physical demand on an ageing body. I said I was only going to do breakdowns and servicing. I was told that I had to be oftec registered to service the boilers.

Of course they want you registered they get the annual subs and a cut from the course provider.

Lets see, if I was in charge of the regulations who would I want servicing the boilers a person who has proved competence or the DIY'er chancing his arm without as much as a smoke pump?

The day providers have to see proof of membership of OFTEC (or Gas Safe) before they can sell the boilers or parts is the day all the regs will start to have a meaning.

 

[dontknowitall]

You don't have to be OFTEC registered to service or install boilers.

(Which begs the question, "Why do we bother?")

A boiler installation has to be registered and this is done via the local building authority. You can ask them to pass the installation, in which case they'll probably ask you to find an OFTEC registered bloke to do this. As for servicing/maintenance this does not have to be recorded to/by or with anyone.

You don't have to use the CD10 forms either - you can write your own.

Crackers, as far as I'm concerned when there is so much to learn on these contraptions but there we go. If you're pushed on this, I'd ask to be shown the act of parliament that proves you have to be registered before working on oil.

 

[Millsy 82]

You don't have to be OFTEC registered to service or install boilers.

(Which begs the question, "Why do we bother?")

A boiler installation has to be registered and this is done via the local building authority. You can ask them to pass the installation, in which case they'll probably ask you to find an OFTEC registered bloke to do this. As for servicing/maintenance this does not have to be recorded to/by or with anyone.

You don't have to use the CD10 forms either - you can write your own.

Crackers, as far as I'm concerned when there is so much to learn on these contraptions but there we go. If you're pushed on this, I'd ask to be shown the act of parliament that proves you have to be registered before working on oil.

I think they tried to put it through a few years back but it got chucked out. Stupid really as I have seen oil boilers in really bad states and producing huge amounts of CO as people dont think about servicing because they just keep going

 

[SimonG]

People need to wake up and realise that oil and solid fuel appliances that are poorly maintained can be just as dangerous as a gas appliance.

 

[Millsy 82]

People need to wake up and realise that oil and solid fuel appliances that are poorly maintained can be just as dangerous as a gas appliance.

Exactly look at what happened in that tent last month.

 

[Nostrum]

More so with solid fuel, 10,000+ ppm on a perfectly safe and correctly installed solid fuel fire

 

[peteheat]

I know a Gent who has to clean his five year old oil boiler & burner about every six weeks, in his words "services his boiler" I asked how he knew when to do it, "it's when the magic eye gets dirty"

Of course the reason is "the pro's just rip people off" my favourite expression from any consumer so no point in advising that Gent how much he would save by having the boiler serviced properly, he knows it all from tinternet.

Why was he talking to me?

Well he wants to buy a Hunter 14 with a boiler because the cost of heating his home is to expensive with the price of oil etc etc

To buy & install the stove (properly) to suppliment his oil system he could be spending as much as €4,500.00, to upgrade to a condensing oil boiler properly commissioned maybe €3,000.00.

To have the existing boiler serviced properly €120.00.

Based on the little information I had which included he was trying to get to the summer without going into a third fill of oil (1200 litres @ .90 cent per litre).

I could guarantee I can cut his heating bills by about 40% (maybe a little more) with the new oil boiler and upgrading his controls.

I could guarantee I can cut his heating bills by at least 25% with just servicing his existing oil boiler because I reckon any boiler sooting up that often is at best operating at 50% efficiency.

With my shopkeepers coat on I sold him the stove which he will fit himself with the help of "A Friend".

There is no point in trying to advise some people, penny wise, pound foolish comes to mind.

The only way such stupidity can be checked is when it is made an offence to sell oil and gas parts to anyone without proof of competence.

The German model on solid fuel and biomass (wood pellet) is a good one where the home owner must have the appliance serviced and certified twice a year by a competent person if the appliance exceeds 15Kw in output, I'm not sure if this applies to oil and gas but I expect it does.

 

[kimbo]

The actual legislation says that to install oil appliances you have to either apply to building control to have it passed once a non competent person has installed it or it can be installed by a competent person, this is defined as someone who is registered with a competent persons scheme, it doesnt have to be oftec in can be napit or any other scheme which includes oil in their scheme.
The boiler is then registered through that particular scheme.

 

[Nostrum]

Yep thats to install due to building control notification. As servicing and repair is non notifiable I can't see any reason why you need to be a member of any of the competent persons schemes.

Gas is a different matter because of the legal documentation in force for that particular fuel, but even then there is no legal definition of competence when you are not charging for your services, although blowing someone's house up or CO poisoning would be classed as incompetence retrospectively !?!?!?

 

[kimbo]

The oftec inspector said that you did need to be registered to service and he quoted a BS number. I will need to find out

 

[Nostrum]

Cool, i'd be interested to know and see. As it stands I will carry on doing the few services that come my way, technically I am still registered through my old firm that I used to work for, and in my opinion I am still deemed competent as I hold up to date tickets for the work I am involved in. Even if they run out, I can't see how one day you are competent and the next day you are not but hey ho.

Post your results if you find, would be interested to see