First Job - and it's a problem solver. Need help!

[Robert Tyrrell]

Hi all - have just been through the OFTEC training and I'm awaiting my registration number but I have a job to do for a friend and it could lead to a lot of work in the future so i need to get it sorted really.
The problem is this:
Boiler Worcester Danesmoor 32/50 keeps locking out at random intervals. I've tried finding the installers literature but can only find the users manual online.
The guy says that he's checked the 'Optical Flame Sensor' by which I think he means the photocell and it is clean but he can smell oil on startup, which he couldn’t before he went away for the week. Everything was working fine before but now it's not and he wants to use the boiler for at least another 8 weeks before have it decommissioned and removed.
Any ideas as to what might be the cause of the random lockouts would be very much appreciated.

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

Update to above: When the boiler thermostat is turned up to max this decreases the interval of the lock out. I'm thinking that as this boiler was discontinued in 2001, making it at least 12 years old, there is a possibility that the heat exchanger is scaled up and this is causing the problem. the oil smell could just be something that he didn't notice before when it was running properly. There doesn't appear to be any service history either so this also makes me think that age is a definite factor in this case.

 

[dontknowitall]

Possible fluing issues? Is it a balanced flue and wind blowing exhaust in and choking the boiler?

Best of luck with your new qualification.

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

Possible fluing issues? Is it a balanced flue and wind blowing exhaust in and choking the boiler?

Best of luck with your new qualification.

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure what the situation is with the flue yet - just wanted to arm myself with a few possibilities before I go and have a look.
As for the new qualification - Lots of money for something that I qualified to do in '86. Back then I didn't need to be OFTEC trained or registered. I just learned it all on my C&G. Still, I suppose that's what I can expect after a 20 year break

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

At the job now and it appears to work fine for a while but it has cut out on a couple of occasions:
1 - just as it started raining heavily
2 - within 30 seconds of replacing the front cover (this happened twice)

 

[dontknowitall]

Sounds like oxygen starvation to me. When was it last serviced?

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

Dont know why that last post didn't publish until now but I'm home now, job done
It turned out to be a blocked flue - just the upper part.
I noticed that as it started to rain very heavily the lock out kicked in, went outside to inspect flue, which goes into a chimney, and looked inside the inspection chamber to find that it was clear.
Bit of head scratching and as I placed the front cover back on the boiler it happened again.
Did a timed test where I made sure that the boiler was running properly without the front cover then refitted it. On the first two occasions lock out occurred within 30 seconds.
Went outside and removed the inspection cover from the flue. Started the boiler up again, ran it for a few minutes then preplaced the boiler cover. It was still working after two minutes so I put the inspection cover back the flue on and it locked out again. I went through the whole thing again just to be sure then I advised that they get the chimney swept, checked for a CO alarm and marked the job as done.
Possible new business in the summer as they want the boiler replaced.

 

[dontknowitall]

Nice one!! Remember to think about the condensate drain and potential wiring when giving a price for a replacement. I'm sure you're aware there's a little more to it than a near replacement as the old ones didn't have a condensate and the newish regulations have stuff like zoning, etc.

Still, you should be in their good books and a well earned weekend!!

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

The 'New' boiler is one that they already have from their old property and it's got a service sticker on it from 2008. Trianco External. I haven't managed to find time to look it up, read installation instructions etc but the heating is already in place. It just needs cleansing so I'll add a powerflush to the price. At first galcne (and I know there's more to it than the first glance shows) it looks as though I just have to connect the boiler to the flow & return, fit a new flue, and connect the wiring but of course there will be complications to this I'm sure, especially as the boilers are in two very different locations; inside & outside. Still there's time to sort it all out because he doesn't want the job done until the summer.

 

[WHPES]

If you're fitting a 2nd hand boiler remember it must be a condensing boiler and notified in the usual way to LABC. Give the customer your terms and conditions whereby you state that you cannot guarantee any existing equipment or equipment supplied by the customer.

If you come across a blocked flue and have to clean out a combustion chamber, set the boiler up using only the pressure gauge and smoke pump, then come back in a day or two to set up using an analyser as you need to give time for any soot to burn off to enable you to get an accurate reading.

 

[lame plumber]

from memory all new boilers have to be condensing,B regs dont mentioned 2nd hand and being as you cant convert old style to he, doesnt mean you cant fit them.

 

[tamz]

I have a job to do for a friend and it could lead to a lot of work in the future

Never believe that one :smile:

 

[kimbo]

The only time you can fit a non condensing boiler is on a commercial installation you cannot fit a second hand non condensing boiler in a domestic property, there is an exception based on a points system which applies to the flue and a form cd33 has to be filled out.

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

The SH boiler is a Trianco Eurostar premier Ext 100/126 and being out of the game for a while I'm a bit inexperienced with all the new BR stuff although I know the basic things.
This boiler was brought from their old house as I mentioned before. Does that mean that they can't use it? What a waste, not to mention the extra cost. The existing boiler is far too large for their requirements as it was put in place to heat the house and swimming pool but never connected to the pool.
I think that I'll do a bit of research on the boiler now. They don't want the job doing until the summer anyway.

 

[dontknowitall]

To be honest, I think you're on a hiding to nothing by moving a boiler. The risk of so many things going wrong (damage to the boiler or floor during transit, bending the casing, flue not fitting correctly, etc, etc, etc) would be too great for me to advise going for it.

I feel the extra money needed for a new one is worth all the extra time spent, aggro, cut fingers, etc for moving an existing boiler. Also a new one will be so much more economical to run.

 

[WHPES]

The only way you can fit a non-condensing boiler, new or 2nd hand, is with an exemption letter from your LABC which they require you to give good reason and may not consider your case good reason. Commercial ones are all heading towards the condensating route eventually.