Fitting an external tap at a commercial premise

[Malcolm Greenhouse]

I have been asked to fit an external tap at a mental health facility to enable the external paths to be hosed down. What form of back syphoning measure is sufficient for this installation?

 

[Deleted member 120897]

I have been asked to fit an external tap at a mental health facility to enable the external paths to be hosed down. What form of back syphoning measure is sufficient for this installation?

I used to work with someone of the same name (used to be a postal worker, then health and safety officer), anyway I digress, if it’s just to be used like a garden tap, then I think (although don’t quote me) it can be a double check valve. If it’s to used near a bin store, I think the fluid risk category changes to a 5. Best bet would be United Utilities water regulations department, as they enforce the regulations for your area. Alternatively seek guidance from Wateregs uk, or look in the water regulations guide.

 

[Malcolm Greenhouse]

I used to work with someone of the same name (used to be a postal worker, then health and safety officer), anyway I digress, if it’s just to be used like a garden tap, then I think (although don’t quote me) it can be a double check valve. If it’s to used near a bin store, I think the fluid risk category changes to a 5. Best bet would be United Utilities water regulations department, as they enforce the regulations for your area. Alternatively seek guidance from Wateregs uk, or look in the water regulations guide.

Made an appointment for UU on Monday and yes it is the same person, who are you?

 

[Deleted member 120897]

Made an appointment for UU on Monday and yes it is the same person, who are you?

I’ll PM you if that’s ok? Don’t want to let the cat out if the bag who I work for publicly

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Cat 3 aslong as it’s just washing down pathways

 

[Malcolm Greenhouse]

I’ll PM you if that’s ok? Don’t want to let the cat out if the bag who I work for publicly

Okay , not sure how private messages work but will try to find it.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

https://www.plumbersforums.net/conversations/add?to=Undertrained

 

[Ric2013]

Let us know what UU says. I'd imagine that so long as it's intended for use with an above-ground hose (to be fitted with a spray terminal that shuts off when you release it as per Water Regs) and not connected to some kind of device for dispensing chemicals with the water, a DCV will be fine, but I'd like to hear it from them.

 

[Malcolm Greenhouse]

Let us know what UU says. I'd imagine that so long as it's intended for use with an above-ground hose (to be fitted with a spray terminal that shuts off when you release it as per Water Regs) and not connected to some kind of device for dispensing chemicals with the water, a DCV will be fine, but I'd like to hear it from them.

Will do but my in house maintenance manager suggests that the attached makes it Class 5 because we would be fitting a hose union tap, what do you think?

 

[Deleted member 120897]

If you think about it though, and similar logic applies in the gas industry, it’s a commercial premise, but then installation is deemed as a domestic setup. However, as I said, this is why it’s best to seek guidance from united utilities - it’s their supply and they enforce the regulations.

Neil Foster and Ken Lacey (if they’re still there) are nice helpful gentlemen.

 

[WC1]

I'm agreeing with:
"installation is deemed as a domestic setup"

(I don't know Neil or Ken but I'm sure they're very nice guys)

 

[Ric2013]

Will do but my in house maintenance manager suggests that the attached makes it Class 5 because we would be fitting a hose union tap, what do you think?

Inclined to agree with your supervisor, with some reservation. Do bear in mind that the document you show is industry guidance (i.e. the water undertakers) which can be over-ridden if the industry (in this case UU) decides. In practice, my experience with water regulation enforcement officers is they tend to be practical people with a common sense approach.

 

[Chuck]

Will do but my in house maintenance manager suggests that the attached makes it Class 5 because we would be fitting a hose union tap, what do you think?

My vote is for cat 5 because, for example, someone might decide to stick the hose up a blocked drain in an attempt to clean it. A lower category might be possible but would require a proper risk assessment to justify it.

 

[Deleted member 120897]

My vote is for cat 5 because, for example, someone might decide to stick the hose up a blocked drain in an attempt to clean it. A lower category might be possible but would require a proper risk assessment to justify it.

A homeowner might do the same though, and they’re still cat 3.

 

[Chuck]

A homeowner might do the same though, and they’re still cat 3.

AAIU these are industrial premises not domestic. Not the same risk profile.

 

[Ric2013]

It's a very weird one actually. Because the tap itself has no backflow potential unless we already know what it is likely to be used for (which we do). Similarly, you could theoretically fit a washing machine valve with 3/4" thread without even a SCV in line (assuming the washing machine IOM states that no backflow protection is required - I always fit a SCV as I doubt any customer will ever bother to check) and then the customer could later connect a garden hose and use it to unblock the kitchen sink (cat 5).

IIRC if the hose union bib tap were internal (rather than external) to a domestic premises and perhaps used to fill a mop bucket, you could quite legally fit it without any backflow protection at all. Then, if a hose were attached, the need for a DCV arises as the hose is a new installation.